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  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by UpaLumpa
    All these guys have at least decent ground (maybe not good but they've got the concept just not the mat time probably). Under these conditions I'm guessing that daily small classes with freaking dean lister and tito ortiz will make a big difference.
    If it was a longer period than six weeks I would agree but with 16 fighters in total and these guys having elimination matches every week that means there is really a short period of time. Only 4 guys really will get the full 6 weeks of experience with training.

    It's not like they have 3 months to prepare for a fight against someone in particular.

    Because of the short time mental and cardio preparedness are more important than working on technique.

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by UpaLumpa
    All these guys have at least decent ground (maybe not good but they've got the concept just not the mat time probably). Under these conditions I'm guessing that daily small classes with freaking dean lister and tito ortiz will make a big difference.
    Agreed.

    If you're at a professional fighter level, having hands on daily training with these guys is going to up your game a few notches.

    Tito's choice of fighters was a little questionable, and Shamrock seems to have a smart gameplan, but I definitely like Ortiz's coaching style better. I thought I was going to hate the "Ortiz vs. Shamrock" motif, but I think it could possibly make things more interesting.

    I wasn't looking forward to this season at all, but now I'm kind of excited.
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  3. #33
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    I understand your point and agree to an extent. However these guys are all going to be getting a ton of conditioning regardless of team, and for Ortiz's guys it is task specific. From everything I've heard about Ortiz (even when I thought more ill of him) conditioning isn't going to be an issue AND they'll be training with Lister.

  4. #34

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    Quote Originally Posted by UpaLumpa
    I understand your point and agree to an extent. However these guys are all going to be getting a ton of conditioning regardless of team, and for Ortiz's guys it is task specific. From everything I've heard about Ortiz (even when I thought more ill of him) conditioning isn't going to be an issue AND they'll be training with Lister.
    Hmm....you would think that would be the case. Ortiz's guy last night got totally owned on the ground...upa ************...upaaaaaaaaa. The guy was admittedly a ground very very novice, ie, no experience on the ground at all and the guy he was going against said he had 11 years of BJJ. Completely out classed him.

    I guess Otiz/Lister didn't have time to school their guy on basic escapes......

    Funny thing though....Ortiz said his guy would be fine if he "didn't pull guard and stayed off of the ground." What's the first thing his guy did.......pulled guard. LOL

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by PirateJon
    And how he picked the fighters - strongman-type ****? Bad move old man.
    I can see why he would do that, actually. Not only does it let you see their overall strength, but it takes a lot of mental effort to get that ************ up on a platform when it's heavy. If you have even a doubt in your mind that you can't get it up there, it's 99% likely that you won't make it. I think it was more to see their mental side than the physical.

  6. #36
    Yes Koto got his name changed, quit asking... supporting member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Ugly Muffin
    Shamrock also picked that Kristian Rothaermel guy who both coaches were complaining about on their trial days. And he picked him like, 3rd or something. He does have a 40-3 professional MMA record and a black-belt in BJJ, but both perceived him as being weak. Maybe Shamrock was looking for experience over work ethic?
    Yeah, that surprised the **** out of me. If they still had the weakest fighter thing from last season, it would've easily been him.

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by UpaLumpa
    I understand your point and agree to an extent. However these guys are all going to be getting a ton of conditioning regardless of team, and for Ortiz's guys it is task specific. From everything I've heard about Ortiz (even when I thought more ill of him) conditioning isn't going to be an issue AND they'll be training with Lister.
    Tito seems more interested in helping these guys become all around better fighters and Shamrock seems more intent on just beating Tito.

    The problem with your argument is that there is on one Tito and One Dean Lister and 8 (now 7) guys on the team.

    They showed a clip of next week where the Brittish guy is getting pissed off on Tito's team that the deaf kid with almost no MMA experience is getting a lot of attention from Tito and Dean, this is going to be an issue. Shamrock's approach of being more hands off may piss off his fighters but will give him and his coaches including the S&C guy a chance to quickly evaluate and tailor a program for each guy for maximum effectiveness over a short period of time.

    Look at the Louisiana guy. Both Tito and Shamrock thought his conditioning was lacking, but he has a 40-3 reccord and a BJJ BB so what he needs more than time with Dean is someone to kick his ass into getting into better shape.

    I am sure all these guys are going to get good conditioning but I think the team that does the better job is going to have more sucess.

    Having said all that if I was a fighter I would want to be on Tito's team because I think you are going to get more out of it in the long run, but for the short term I think Shamrock's got the edge

  8. #38

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    I think the 40-3 record for Rotharmel might have been a mistake. Full contact Fighter and Sherdog only list his record at 4-2. Now, I know sherdog and FCF are not complete, but to miss 36 other fights?

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yrkoon9
    GG = Good Game / Good Going. It is not a signature or initials.
    It's not Gringo Grande letting us know when he is moving threads?

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by GoldenJonas
    Hmm....you would think that would be the case. Ortiz's guy last night got totally owned on the ground...upa ************...upaaaaaaaaa. The guy was admittedly a ground very very novice, ie, no experience on the ground at all and the guy he was going against said he had 11 years of BJJ. Completely out classed him.

    I guess Otiz/Lister didn't have time to school their guy on basic escapes......

    Funny thing though....Ortiz said his guy would be fine if he "didn't pull guard and stayed off of the ground." What's the first thing his guy did.......pulled guard. LOL
    You = stupid.
    That fight was on what the third day the teams were set up? if that.

    Go back to the start line. Do not pass go. Do not collect 200 dollars.

    As numerous people have pointed out these fights are decided mostly by what you had coming in rather than who is coaching you. Further, despite roid boy, I give the conditioning edge to Ortiz's team. Plus top notch assisstants? You're better off on Tito's team (though I think it is obvious that Shamrock may have made the better picks).

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