Pathological Lying

[Sun Wukong]

Everyone's met someone who can't stop lying. It's all over the place... just look at the number of Rad Ki fakers, faux ninjas, and bullshit kung fu/karate/MMA wannabe's. How many times have you met someone through a friend or overheard some nutball going on and on about something which cannot possibly be true. You'd think that there would be better research on it... however, after looking around for along time all I can come up with is BULLSHIT and inance psycho-babble. I respect psychologists... well, most of the time, but all I can find from pyschologists right now, is utter dung.

Listen to this contrived SHITE from Peggy Elam, Ph.D.:

http://health.ivillage.com/mentalhea.../0,,ks,00.html:

I have a friend who has always lied -- big rotten lies and stupid little lies. I have also met other people who are just like my friend, constantly lying. Is there a name for this pattern? How is it helped? My friend has made up very damaging lies about all kinds of terrible things, like cheating on spouses and rape. Her lies are often about family members and often involve sex. Then she'll lie about something really stupid and insignificant, like it doesn't matter anyway. -- A Friend



There are several possible reasons -- or labels -- for your friend's behavior. People who lie constantly are often called pathological liars. That's not an official clinical diagnosis, which means it's not listed in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, Fourth Edition, or DSM-IV. But chronic lying in adults is often a manifestation of antisocial personality disorder (also known as sociopathy). Sociopaths are often deceitful and manipulative in order to gain personal profit or pleasure.

Sometimes an individual with dissociative identity disorder (DID), formerly known as multiple personality disorder, will deny doing things for which they have amnesia (don't remember). In such situations, the person may have no memory of doing X and swear up and down that it didn't happen. But anyone who actually saw the DID individual engaging in the disputed behavior will believe he or she is just lying. Obviously, the situation is more complicated than that. (Of course, some people with DID can also have sociopathic tendencies and intentionally lie about some things.)

DID is treatable with long-term psychotherapy. So is antisocial personality disorder, although such individuals will often not seek out treatment on their own or not follow through on treatment once it begins. (The earlier the treatment occurs, though, the better the chances of success.) Sometimes adults with antisocial personality disorder will be motivated for treatment when consequences of their behavior -- such as legal or financial trouble -- cause them distress.

Of course, only your friend really knows the reason for her chronic lying, and ultimately it's up to her to get the help she needs. Until then, you'd probably do yourself (and perhaps her) a favor by refusing to take whatever she says at face value ... at least not until she demonstrates that her word can be trusted.

Since when was anti-social disorder applied to everyone who lies for profit?

Bullshit. People lie for profit all the time and anti-social personality disorder is absolutely not that damn common. Anti-Social personality disorder, or Sociopathy is people who don't feel remorse or pity. Simply lying for profit doesn't mean you are crazy.

My biggest contention with this is her two paragraphs about DID or Disassociative Identity Disorder (formerly known as multiple personality disorder)... which has got to be the biggest load of bullshit to ever land on a text book since intelligent design. She infers here that pathological liars commonly have DID and either lie as part of a seperate identity or people falsely believe they are lying to protect themselves from something they did when they really have no recollection of doing it.

BULLSHIT!

In the first place, many serious psychologists don't even believe that DID even exists. In any case, tt is not a common psychological phenomenon as few credible abnormal psychologists have ever claimed to have seen even one true case of it and the majority of DID claims and documentation can be quicly discredited. It's usually a deeply episodic bipolar person or schitzophrenic who is too addled and confused to known which direction is up much less convincingly determine where they are, what they are doing and how to convincingly lie.

Secondly, she contradicts herself clearly in the last paragraph by saying, "Of course, only your friend knows the reason for her chronic lying..." If she had DID: NO she probably wouldn't know why she is always lying due to her having no actual knowledge of any lies because she can't remember them... according to Ms. Elam anyway.


So, after looking all over the place on the web, I really couldn't find anything that I would consider credible. Could someone please site a credible source or give an educated opinion or substantial insight on the matter****. I mean, this site is entirely dedicated to outing frauds, I think it would helpful to the site's mission statement... if there even is an official one...


****(please note, this immediately disqualifies Hannibal from attempting to contribute)


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[Yrkoon9]

I don't know about any of that ****.

But I do know as groups go I have seen a lot of lying fuckers in martial arts.

[It is Fake]

Yes, I was in one of those groups. Fun...Fun...Fun...

[broken fingers]

i recently made a thread about that, the thing is, when they get caught, they just resort to more lying. i think it gets to a point where they believe there own lies...

[Sun Wukong]

Well, there is a theory that I've seen about pathological liars actually believing their lies... i don't believe it for a second. I think they'd rather continue with a lie that is impossible to uphold rationally rather than admit guilt.

There are liars that believe their own lies, but I think those people are either suffering from a severe psychological disorder like schitzophrenia or just have judgement so bad they can't determine what is the truth. Like the large numbers of people who still support guys like Frank Dux and Ashida Kim.

[Sam Browning]

In my Forensic Science and Mental Health class in graduate school my teacher who formally ran Connecticut's version of Arkam Asylum. (Whiting Forensic Institute) commented that multiple personality disorder was very rare and happened to women who had been repeatly sexually abused as children. Why she brought this excuse up I have no idea.

[Torakaka]

In my Forensic Science and Mental Health class in graduate school my teacher who formally ran Connecticut's version of Arkam Asylum.

Did it house such villains as The Jester, Poison Oak, and Mrs Freeze?

[MONGO]

Can we get a blinking banner that says "Blooming Lotus, Please Read Inside" for this thread?????????? I think she may have a problem.

[CanucKyokushin]

So, after looking all over the place on the web, I really couldn't find anything that I would consider credible. Could someone please site a credible source or give an educated opinion or substantial insight on the matter****. I mean, this site is entirely dedicated to outing frauds, I think it would helpful to the site's mission statement... if there even is an official one...

So you feel that ALL of these individuals have some sort of psychological disorder thats makes them lie?Is it not possible that at least the charlatans in this world lie to others,not because they have a glitch in their heads but perhaps they have been lying for so long that they use it as their only recourse to get out of any cross-examinations by their students or any one who tries to out them.

Flame me if you find that my statement was retarded.However after watching that Dillman video and others like it ,I come to that conclusion.These guys lie or find excuses to as explain why their **** does not work or only on a small percentage of the population is susceptible to PP.I speaking of Dillmans and Ashida Kim's of this world.

[Sun Wukong]

I still don't believe it. To truly have DID you must forget a whole portion of your identity. Now, I can see pretending that something bad never happened, but actually forgetting such a traumatic event I can't believe for a second.

Denial is one thing, but actually not remembering what you do at length during a day is a symptom of an entirely different problem than DID. Alzheimers, schitzophrenia, meth addiction, and being drugged up on roofies is plausible. I don't think that anything could happen bad enough to where you'd create an entirely new identity. Unless you consciously made the decision to pretend to be a different person---which to me is alot more likely, though just as disturbing.

I can see traumatic events wrecking a persons stability and ability to rationalize, for sure.