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  1. Yrkoon9 is offline
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    Brock Sampson

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    Posted On:
    4/19/2006 2:23pm

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     Style: 5.56

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Two great examples of the short body hook being used to effectively KO the opponent:

    1) Joko Ninomiya in the All Japan Open against that team of foolish kung fu guys. Joko hits him and the guy just buckles. If you look closely you can see a grin on Joko's face.

    2) Bas Rutten in Pancrase against Delucia(?) Liver punch!

    It's tough for me to get that shot in because I keep my hands high. But if I can get the right distance and load up on my left side it is probably my most powerfull punch. A lot of times I get a piece of someones elbow when wearing gloves. Sorta sucks when that happens.
  2. PirateJon is offline
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    and good morning to you too

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    Posted On:
    4/19/2006 2:59pm

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     Style: MT/BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I get my liver shots in by slipping left and throwing a left upper/hook (comes up at about 45 degrees) right under the ribs and their elbow. It's a pretty good angle and you're still pretty well covered. if they're dropping their elbow down to stop teh pain fake it and go high with the hook.
    You can't make people smarter. You can expose them to information, but your responsibility stops there.
  3. Yrkoon9 is offline
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    Brock Sampson

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    Posted On:
    4/19/2006 3:17pm

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     Style: 5.56

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!


    Crap picture I know.

    But it illustrates my boxing style.

    I just threw a right cross that landed. The result is my opponent reeling backwards (into the ninja shrine, but that is another story). I am loaded onto my left foot and hunched over. If that punch had missed or not had the same effect my opponent usually has both hands up over his face. I drop my left about 6 inches and twist upward and to the right.

    The problem is if I haven't got him on defense, hit him very hard, or set it up correctly I end up getting fucking NAILED by his straight right, or might be corkscrewing upwards right into a left hook. It becomes a hook trade at that point. While I will naturally have my right up covering my face when I throw that left body hook it does not guarantee safety. I prefer not to trade hooks. The difference between knocking the wind out of someone and taking a black eye doesn't seem like much. Until the next day. Everyone laughs at you for getting your ass kicked.
  4. Infrazael is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/11/2006 1:49am


     Style: Choy Lay Fut Gung Fu, MMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by AAAhmed46
    Lots o kung-fu and some karate people love to talk about short power, the way it's done in taiji. It has principles and everything.

    But the thing is, it's almost never really used.

    Shovel hooks, on the other hand follow many the principles of short power and they work really damn well!

    Yet most(not all) of my fellow TMA people dont consider it the same; they even look down on hooks themselves!

    But if anything, it seems like the application of short power to me; the real use for it seems to be the shovel hook.


    Is my line of thinking correct?
    Eh . . . . . we use them all the time in CLF. Short and long. We are a "longfist" style but what that basically means is we prefer to strike with full extension at close quarters. So much for "longfist" lmao.

    As far as "short power" goes there is drastic different between waist/hip rotation power and some other types of energy developed in different CMAs.

    Most common ones are probably Hakka CMAs. They have something they like to call "shock power" or "short power." This is essentially all biomechanics -- NOTHING mystical about it. Call it chi, call it Allah. It doesn't matter.

    What matters is that I've felt those damned punches on my arms and they do hurt like a ************. Souther Praying Mantis has their own "grinding arm" drills (they have 18 variations, I only know one and it's a good isometric exercise) in order to build up the muscles in the upper body. I'm not an expert on it so I won't comment further.

    Also in Southern Mantis, they supposedly use the expansion and collapse of the ribcage to generate power. I'm not an anatomy expert, so I'll leave it to the other guys to comment here. Again, it's what THEY claim -- not me.

    So, what is my conclusion? Short power exists. There are different types of "short power." Many of these "special" ones often discusin CMA circles aren't really that special -- just a different way to generate power. The unique thing is alot of it does not involve waist or hip movement -- just the chest, ribs, elbows, shoulders, etc . . . . . allowing for a rapid-fire type of punching.

    PS -- WING CHUN IS MUTUALLY EXLCLUSIVE WITH ACTUAL CMA. DON'T THINK ABOUT BRINING IT UP, BECAUSE I WILL IGNORE YOU.
  5. Infrazael is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/11/2006 1:53am


     Style: Choy Lay Fut Gung Fu, MMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Arbiter
    In CMA its usually called an 'Ox-Horn' punch. Same as what odacon is describing. You can get a lot of torque and short power into that strike.
    No it's not. The Ox-Horn punch is often a wide, sometimes haymaker-like swing where the impact is in the first two knuckles.

    A very STUPID punch IMO, one that I will never use and will never teach anyone to use. High impact swing at a 45 degree angle, most likely hitting the opponent in the skull.

    That just calls for fucking your hand up.

    No thanks, I think forearms are harder than my knuckles.
  6. Bluto Blutarsky is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/11/2006 5:32pm


     Style: Mostly drinking. E-chaun

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by AAAhmed46
    Lots o kung-fu and some karate people love to talk about short power, the way it's done in taiji. It has principles and everything.

    But the thing is, it's almost never really used.

    Shovel hooks, on the other hand follow many the principles of short power and they work really damn well!

    Yet most(not all) of my fellow TMA people dont consider it the same; they even look down on hooks themselves!

    But if anything, it seems like the application of short power to me; the real use for it seems to be the shovel hook.


    Is my line of thinking correct?
    I do cma, and it isn't hooks we look down on, it is the john wayne "haymaker" type of hook that a blind gimp can see coming a mile away.

    Actually "we" from what I've seen count hooks as one of the best strikes, although they don't use them in the traditional sense of a hook the way boxing does (we are taught to operate at a "closer" range than a boxer), it is still basically a hook.

    I think short power is a carnival trick, it just looks short. think of a boxer's clinch uppercut. Call me nuckin' futs but isn't that a non cma example of short power?
  7. LI GUY 1 is offline
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    GIJoe6186 like boys, mainly his brother

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    Posted On:
    5/11/2006 6:34pm

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     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Just a quick question to Bluto. In my experience everyone looks down on hymaker hooks. But the CMA I would see had (in the forms) fully extended swinging strikes. Also what about the full arm extended ridgehand. Aren't those TMA techniques just as easily seen as a haymaker? The only difference is the angle of attck or the form of the hand??

    Thanks
  8. Infrazael is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/12/2006 12:51am


     Style: Choy Lay Fut Gung Fu, MMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by LI GUY 1
    Just a quick question to Bluto. In my experience everyone looks down on hymaker hooks. But the CMA I would see had (in the forms) fully extended swinging strikes. Also what about the full arm extended ridgehand. Aren't those TMA techniques just as easily seen as a haymaker? The only difference is the angle of attck or the form of the hand??

    Thanks
    That would depend.

    For example, my style's most famous attack "Sau Choy" (sweeping punch) is a wide, arcing motion hitting with the inner forearms. We condition our forearms as well, so we don't feel any pain upon hitting the opponent.

    Regardless, it has to do with the intent, accuracy, path, timing, and distance of the attack . . . . . and then some. Also, unlike "haymakers" these are never thrown by theselves -- they are used in conjunction with straights, hooks, uppercuts, parries, evasions, grabs, bridges, etc.

    Also, a "Sau Choy" can be used at various extensions, NOT just a full extension.

    When we practice drills, we train them with full extensions. However when we spar, we use everything from medium to full extension. That is because for a short-ranged attack, I just use boxing hooks.

    Also a Sau Choy has a specific angle and pattern of attacking. It's not a random haymaker. There are specific targets (neck, collarbone, ear/jaws), and the attack is made with great accuracy. It is ALWAYS followed up by more strikes as well.

    Hope that helps. We don't throw mindless "haymakers." There are some wide, sweeping strikes, but they are there FOR A REASON. And no, we don't start combos with them if you are wondering. They are mostly used to get the KO or induce serious damage if your opponent is retarded enough to drop his hands, or if you somehow **** up his guard.

    We also use forearm strikes (inner, outer, and top) with sau choys, backfists, hammerfists, etc . . . . . in order to break guard. This is similar to how Yaw-Yan (Filipino Kickboxing) fighters use some of their forearm strikes, taken from FMA stickfighting such as Kali and Escrima.

    Peace
  9. rlee34 is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/12/2006 10:55am

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: tae kwon do

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    shorty power

    short power is a simple concept. It's easier to aply with a compact hook, tho. It's just like when a powerlifter lifts a weight over his head, the power comes from the first inch of actual movement, making the rest of the lift very quick. A headbutt doesn't have to travel far.:icon_pira

    Your fist travels fast, but at the last instant you can get your body weight and leg strength behind the punch, so its like your entire body weight is traveling as quick as your strike. Doing this with a linear strike takes skill because it all must happen very quickly and you need a lot of speed. It happens with some close-range palm strikes.
  10. Yrkoon9 is offline
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    Brock Sampson

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    Posted On:
    5/12/2006 12:30pm

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    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    This page is full of lame ****.

    I just read someone chastize the haymaker, saying it was a punch that a blind gimp could see coming a mile away. He must not realize that it the #1 KO punch of all time.

    But only a few short posts away the same person advocates the use of some sort of 'sweeping inner forearm' strike.

    Where the **** is my rollyeyes smiley when I need it....?
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