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  1. Nathan McScary is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/06/2006 1:57pm


     Style: Kenpo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    What Do You Consider "A Fight"?

    I was surfing sherdog the other day and noticed that they just put up the UFC 1 and 2 DVDs for sale. While describing the events, they took a jab at the quality of the fighters and matches by putting quotation marks around the word "fights" when refering to the event. I understood the point they were trying to make, being that many of the fighters were not well rounded and did not have any idea what they were doing at times, but it also got me to thinking; back then there were absolutely no rules whatsoever and the fighters were more mismatched, if anything, quality or not, those fights were more real then than they are now in current MMA (especially considering some of the injuries in the first couple UFCs). Going deeper, this got me thinking, what actually makes a fight a fight?

    I think to help draw the line between legitimate and bullshido matches and training methods, we should discuss what a fight is to each person and why. Also, which of the following methods would be good training vs. bullshido or overkill.

    Copy and paste the following and write 'yes' or 'no' to each catagory if you would consider it a bonafide fight. Also mention which are effective training methods in your opinion. Explain yourself as you see fit. Forgive me if there is a little grey area in some of these catagories.

    - An impromtu street fight

    - A planed street fight (challenge match)

    - A sanctioned no rules match (early UFC)

    - A modern MMA match (UFC rules and standards, for the sake of argument)

    - A Muay Thai match (bare-knuckle)

    - A San Shao match (takedowns, but no grappling)

    - An american kick boxing match (gloves and no clinching)

    - A boxing match

    - Full contact karate (no kicks below waist, headgear worn)

    - Free sparing (typical dojo sparing rules, but no breaks between hits)

    - Point sparing



    Discuss.
  2. JohnnyCache is offline
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    All Out of Bubblegum

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    Posted On:
    4/06/2006 2:03pm

    supporting memberforum leader
     Style: MMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    It's like obscenity

    I know it when I see it
    ...
    ...
    ...

    and it makes me aroused.
    There's no choice but to confront you, to engage you, to erase you. I've gone to great lengths to expand my threshold of pain. I will use my mistakes against you. There's no other choice.
  3. Mr. Mantis is offline
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    One Ambulance, Eleven Cops...

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    Posted On:
    4/06/2006 2:20pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Kung Fu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by JohnnyCache
    It's like obscenity

    I know it when I see it
    ...
    ...
    ...

    and it makes me aroused.
    I think you mean "pornography" Not "obscenity"
    “We are surrounded by warships and don’t have time to talk. Please pray for us.” — One Somali Pirate.
  4. Teh El Macho is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/06/2006 2:21pm

    supporting member
     Style: creonte on hiatus

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Nathan McScary
    - Free sparing (typical dojo sparing rules, but no breaks between hits)

    - Point sparing.
    Fight is defined as the act of fighting, any contest or struggle. And by definition, martial arts sparring is a form of training in which two opponents simulate an actual fight. Therefore, by definition, a sparring session does not constitute an act fighting or contest, however realistic it maybe.

    Some people may argue what sparring is a fight since it constitutes a struggle. However, it seems to me that "struggle" as in expected in a fight or contest is a means to defend yourself at least, or to win at best. However, in sparring, the "struggle" is just an instrument of learning. You may be expected to do your best in a sparring session, but whoever wins or loses becomes irrelevant.

    Therefore, since the intention of sparring is different than in a fight, it does not constute a fight at all.

    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny Cache
    It's like obscenity
    Yeah, obscenity is cool.
    Read this for flexibility and injury prevention, this, this and this for supplementation, this on grip conditioning, and this on staph. New: On strenght standards, relationships and structural balance. Shoulder problems? Read this.

    My crapuous vlog and my blog of training, stuff and crap. NEW: Me, Mrs. Macho and our newborn baby.

    New To Weight Training? Get the StrongLifts 5x5 program and Rippetoe's "Starting Strength, 2nd Ed". Wanna build muscle/gain weight? Check this article. My review on Tactical Nutrition here.

    t-nation - Dissecting the deadlift. Anatomy and Muscle Balancing Videos.

    The street argument is retarded. BJJ is so much overkill for the street that its ridiculous. Unless you're the idiot that picks a fight with the high school wrestling team, barring knife or gun play, the opponent shouldn't make it past double leg + ground and pound - Osiris
  5. Teh El Macho is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/06/2006 2:23pm

    supporting member
     Style: creonte on hiatus

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr_Mantis
    I think you mean "pornography" Not "obscenity"
    Meh, for some obscenity == pornography.
    Read this for flexibility and injury prevention, this, this and this for supplementation, this on grip conditioning, and this on staph. New: On strenght standards, relationships and structural balance. Shoulder problems? Read this.

    My crapuous vlog and my blog of training, stuff and crap. NEW: Me, Mrs. Macho and our newborn baby.

    New To Weight Training? Get the StrongLifts 5x5 program and Rippetoe's "Starting Strength, 2nd Ed". Wanna build muscle/gain weight? Check this article. My review on Tactical Nutrition here.

    t-nation - Dissecting the deadlift. Anatomy and Muscle Balancing Videos.

    The street argument is retarded. BJJ is so much overkill for the street that its ridiculous. Unless you're the idiot that picks a fight with the high school wrestling team, barring knife or gun play, the opponent shouldn't make it past double leg + ground and pound - Osiris
  6. CanucKyokushin is offline

    He'll flip ya!

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    Posted On:
    4/06/2006 2:24pm

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     Style: Not.....working

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Nathan McScary
    Explain yourself as you see fit. Forgive me if there is a little grey area in some of these catagories.

    - A planed street fight (challenge match)

    - A sanctioned no rules match (early UFC)

    - A modern MMA match (UFC rules and standards, for the sake of argument)

    - A Muay Thai match (bare-knuckle)

    - A San Shao match (takedowns, but no grappling)

    - An american kick boxing match (gloves and no clinching)

    - A boxing match

    - Full contact karate (no kicks below waist, headgear worn)

    - Free sparing (typical dojo sparing rules, but no breaks between hits)

    - Point sparing



    Discuss.
    Well for everyone of these fights it would be sanction by a governing body of some sort.Also,the fighters participating in the fight would agree to the rule base set by the 'body' .

    even including the - A planed street fight -the I would assume that both fighters would generally agree the fight being mano-a -mano.And therefore there would be no escalation beyong fists and kicks.Ie.Knives,tables and baseball bats.
    - An impromtu street fight
    Well........................this has been talk before on a number of threads.However,what would you constitute an impromptu fight?A mugging or assault with a weapon?Which one?
  7. Zing! is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/06/2006 2:36pm


     Style: bjj

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    - An impromtu street fight

    - A planed street fight (challenge match)

    - A sanctioned no rules match (early UFC)

    - A modern MMA match (UFC rules and standards, for the sake of argument)

    - A Muay Thai match (bare-knuckle)

    - A San Shao match (takedowns, but no grappling)

    - An american kick boxing match (gloves and no clinching)

    - A boxing match

    - Full contact karate (no kicks below waist, headgear worn)

    Any of the above. I think that the main difference is that the purpose of the above is to compete. The purpose of sparring is generally to learn. In competition, your primary goal should be to win (by following the rules, if there are any). If you learn, that's a byproduct.
  8. Darkpaladin is offline
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    The r34l Drunken Jiu Jitsu

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    Posted On:
    4/06/2006 2:42pm

    supporting member
     Style: _razilian _iu _itsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    The primary objective of a fight is to defeat your opponent.
    The primary objective of sparring is to get improve your skills.

    Fights are personal, matches and sparring shouldn't be.
    :google:

    Number of bottles of beer downed by me and my girlfriend within a half hour while playing the Channel 7 "how many times will they say 'snow' game" during the "Blizzard of '06": 3.5 each.
  9. CanucKyokushin is offline

    He'll flip ya!

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    Posted On:
    4/06/2006 2:46pm

    supporting member
     Style: Not.....working

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by elnyka
    Fight is defined as the act of fighting, any contest or struggle. And by definition, martial arts sparring is a form of training in which two opponents simulate an actual fight. Therefore, by definition, a sparring session does not constitute an act fighting or contest, however realistic it maybe.

    Some people may argue what sparring is a fight since it constitutes a struggle. However, it seems to me that "struggle" as in expected in a fight or contest is a means to defend yourself at least, or to win at best. However, in sparring, the "struggle" is just an instrument of learning. You may be expected to do your best in a sparring session, but whoever wins or loses becomes irrelevant.

    Therefore, since the intention of sparring is different than in a fight, it does not constute a fight at all.

    Yeah, obscenity is cool.
    No and Yes.The object of a tournament "fight" of any kind is to win.After you can stand over your opponent shouting 'I AM THE GREATEST!!'.
  10. FictionPimp is offline

    Sexiest Punching Bag Alive

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    Posted On:
    4/06/2006 2:46pm


     Style: BJJ/Judo/Boxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    If i'm trying to hurt you, its a fight. Otherwise its sparring, rolling, competition, playing, etc.

    Just because i'm tring to win, doesn't mean I'm trying to hurt you. While that may be a side effect of trying to win, I really dont want to see my friends/opponents seriously hurt. In a fight however, I want to make sure you know damn well to stay on the ground and not get back up and try your **** with me again, thus I am going to have one goal, and that is to hurt you the worst possible way I can.
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