What Do You Consider "A Fight"?

**Nathan McScary** · Posted On: 4/06/2006 1:57pm

I was surfing sherdog the other day and noticed that they just put up the UFC 1 and 2 DVDs for sale. While describing the events, they took a jab at the quality of the fighters and matches by putting quotation marks around the word "fights" when refering to the event. I understood the point they were trying to make, being that many of the fighters were not well rounded and did not have any idea what they were doing at times, but it also got me to thinking; back then there were absolutely no rules whatsoever and the fighters were more mismatched, if anything, quality or not, those fights were more real then than they are now in current MMA (especially considering some of the injuries in the first couple UFCs). Going deeper, this got me thinking, what actually makes a fight a fight?

I think to help draw the line between legitimate and bullshido matches and training methods, we should discuss what a fight is to each person and why. Also, which of the following methods would be good training vs. bullshido or overkill.

Copy and paste the following and write 'yes' or 'no' to each catagory if you would consider it a bonafide fight. Also mention which are effective training methods in your opinion. Explain yourself as you see fit. Forgive me if there is a little grey area in some of these catagories.

- An impromtu street fight

- A planed street fight (challenge match)

- A sanctioned no rules match (early UFC)

- A modern MMA match (UFC rules and standards, for the sake of argument)

- A Muay Thai match (bare-knuckle)

- A San Shao match (takedowns, but no grappling)

- An american kick boxing match (gloves and no clinching)

- A boxing match

- Full contact karate (no kicks below waist, headgear worn)

- Free sparing (typical dojo sparing rules, but no breaks between hits)

- Point sparing

Discuss.

***JohnnyCache*** · Posted On: 4/06/2006 2:03pm

It's like obscenity

I know it when I see it
...
...
...

and it makes me aroused.

**Mr. Mantis** · Posted On: 4/06/2006 2:20pm

Originally Posted by JohnnyCache

It's like obscenity

I know it when I see it
...
...
...

and it makes me aroused.

I think you mean "pornography" Not "obscenity"

**Teh El Macho** · Posted On: 4/06/2006 2:21pm

Originally Posted by Nathan McScary

- Free sparing (typical dojo sparing rules, but no breaks between hits)

- Point sparing.

Fight is defined as the act of fighting, any contest or struggle. And by definition, martial arts sparring is a form of training in which two opponents simulate an actual fight. Therefore, by definition, a sparring session does not constitute an act fighting or contest, however realistic it maybe.

Some people may argue what sparring is a fight since it constitutes a struggle. However, it seems to me that "struggle" as in expected in a fight or contest is a means to defend yourself at least, or to win at best. However, in sparring, the "struggle" is just an instrument of learning. You may be expected to do your best in a sparring session, but whoever wins or loses becomes irrelevant.

Therefore, since the intention of sparring is different than in a fight, it does not constute a fight at all.

Originally Posted by Johnny Cache

It's like obscenity

Yeah, obscenity is cool.

**Teh El Macho** · Posted On: 4/06/2006 2:23pm

Originally Posted by Mr_Mantis

I think you mean "pornography" Not "obscenity"

Meh, for some obscenity == pornography.

**CanucKyokushin** · Posted On: 4/06/2006 2:24pm

Originally Posted by Nathan McScary

Explain yourself as you see fit. Forgive me if there is a little grey area in some of these catagories.

- A planed street fight (challenge match)

- A sanctioned no rules match (early UFC)

- A modern MMA match (UFC rules and standards, for the sake of argument)

- A Muay Thai match (bare-knuckle)

- A San Shao match (takedowns, but no grappling)

- An american kick boxing match (gloves and no clinching)

- A boxing match

- Full contact karate (no kicks below waist, headgear worn)

- Free sparing (typical dojo sparing rules, but no breaks between hits)

- Point sparing

Discuss.

Well for everyone of these fights it would be sanction by a governing body of some sort.Also,the fighters participating in the fight would agree to the rule base set by the 'body' .

even including the - A planed street fight -the I would assume that both fighters would generally agree the fight being mano-a -mano.And therefore there would be no escalation beyong fists and kicks.Ie.Knives,tables and baseball bats.

- An impromtu street fight

Well........................this has been talk before on a number of threads.However,what would you constitute an impromptu fight?A mugging or assault with a weapon?Which one?

**Zing!** · Posted On: 4/06/2006 2:36pm

- An impromtu street fight

- A planed street fight (challenge match)

- A sanctioned no rules match (early UFC)

- A modern MMA match (UFC rules and standards, for the sake of argument)

- A Muay Thai match (bare-knuckle)

- A San Shao match (takedowns, but no grappling)

- An american kick boxing match (gloves and no clinching)

- A boxing match

- Full contact karate (no kicks below waist, headgear worn)

Any of the above. I think that the main difference is that the purpose of the above is to compete. The purpose of sparring is generally to learn. In competition, your primary goal should be to win (by following the rules, if there are any). If you learn, that's a byproduct.

**Darkpaladin** · Posted On: 4/06/2006 2:42pm

The primary objective of a fight is to defeat your opponent.
The primary objective of sparring is to get improve your skills.

Fights are personal, matches and sparring shouldn't be.

**CanucKyokushin** · Posted On: 4/06/2006 2:46pm

Originally Posted by elnyka

Fight is defined as the act of fighting, any contest or struggle. And by definition, martial arts sparring is a form of training in which two opponents simulate an actual fight. Therefore, by definition, a sparring session does not constitute an act fighting or contest, however realistic it maybe.

Some people may argue what sparring is a fight since it constitutes a struggle. However, it seems to me that "struggle" as in expected in a fight or contest is a means to defend yourself at least, or to win at best. However, in sparring, the "struggle" is just an instrument of learning. You may be expected to do your best in a sparring session, but whoever wins or loses becomes irrelevant.

Therefore, since the intention of sparring is different than in a fight, it does not constute a fight at all.

Yeah, obscenity is cool.

No and Yes.The object of a tournament "fight" of any kind is to win.After you can stand over your opponent shouting 'I AM THE GREATEST!!'.

**FictionPimp** · Posted On: 4/06/2006 2:46pm

If i'm trying to hurt you, its a fight. Otherwise its sparring, rolling, competition, playing, etc.

Just because i'm tring to win, doesn't mean I'm trying to hurt you. While that may be a side effect of trying to win, I really dont want to see my friends/opponents seriously hurt. In a fight however, I want to make sure you know damn well to stay on the ground and not get back up and try your **** with me again, thus I am going to have one goal, and that is to hurt you the worst possible way I can.