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  1. FictionPimp is offline

    Sexiest Punching Bag Alive

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    Oct 2005
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    Indiana
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    2,147

    Posted On:
    4/06/2006 9:34am


     Style: BJJ/Judo/Boxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I dont doubt there are people who can make it work. They are just an exception not a rule. I've just observed that in a boxing gym, most people in there can box. In a judo club you will be hard pressed to meet a shodan who can't throw you, in a bjj club you will have trouble finding a purple belt with poor technique, but I've found that in most aikido clubs its easy to find people who can not perform their techiques on non-resistant oppoents (aka I throw a good real punch with proper foot work and balance and wait for them to do something). First, I normally get asked not to return my fist, then I get asked to commit more (even though that is how I have been taught to punch). Finally, after they screw around some more, then will tell me I need to relax. If all that fails, I will be told that it is my fault and I need to improve my sensitivity.

    I am not a great figther. I am a novice. Yes, I have met aikidoka who can lay the smack down on me. But these guys were also judoka well before aikido. Even then I notice most of the things they try dont work, they are just good enough to keep moving until they land on the thing that does. However, I am giving them that time. I am not reacting to their movments, but rather letting them do what they want, even though I can see where it leads. This is part of being a uke and not a sparing partner. If I chose not to give them that time and make a contest out of it, I wonder how the story would work out.

    I am by no means making fun of aikido. I train in aikido. But i'm not going to ignore its problems. Just like i'm not going to ignore bjj's problems, or judo's problems.
  2. DAYoung is offline
    DAYoung's Avatar

    Crouching Philosopher, Hidden Philosopher

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    Posted On:
    4/06/2006 4:03pm

    supporting member
     Style: n/a (ex-Karate)

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by DerAuslander108
    Seriously.

    I just whored a dude in a debate on another MA site on how 99% of martial arts teachers are not qualified to say a damn thing about "martial philosophy" or any such nonsense.
    What I love about Bullshido is that a brief exchange about philosophy can involve the words: "I just whored a dude". Brilliant.

    I think the philosophising is part of the MA mindset for many folk. Unfortunately, it's much more difficult to realise you've been hammered in a discussion than on the street (particularly if you're a dopey bugger) - hence: more bullshit.
    Martial Arts and Philosophy: Beating and Nothingness
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  3. DAYoung is offline
    DAYoung's Avatar

    Crouching Philosopher, Hidden Philosopher

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    Posted On:
    4/06/2006 4:17pm

    supporting member
     Style: n/a (ex-Karate)

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by FictionPimp
    I dont doubt there are people who can make it work. They are just an exception not a rule. I've just observed that in a boxing gym, most people in there can box. In a judo club you will be hard pressed to meet a shodan who can't throw you, in a bjj club you will have trouble finding a purple belt with poor technique, but I've found that in most aikido clubs its easy to find people who can not perform their techiques on non-resistant oppoents (aka I throw a good real punch with proper foot work and balance and wait for them to do something).
    Yes, I have noticed similar things in the past. If I really resist at Judo (and I'm a heavy chap), they just work harder, or politely ask if I can help them learn the technique properly first. There is a real atmosphere of learning, which requires that we resist, struggle, strain, and so on. I rarely encountered this at Aikido. I'm sure it happens in some dojos, but I've never witnessed it. There was no spirit of education through well-intentioned confrontation (something I did see at Karate).
    Martial Arts and Philosophy: Beating and Nothingness
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  4. Cymro is offline

    Registered Member

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    Wilmington, NC, USA
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    Posted On:
    4/06/2006 5:46pm


     Style: Yang style Tai Chi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I tried aikido for a while. They had a hard time handling Chinese-style vertical fist punches. A regular boxer would have killed them.

    I then made the mistake of trying this on a guy who trained a pretty hardcore Aikikai dojo. It's good that I know how to breakfall.

    As I've said before: any style can work. What counts is how you train. The better fighter will win.

    DerAuslander: Do you ever get the feeling that most MA instructors are reading off of the same Shambala cheatsheet?
  5. DAYoung is offline
    DAYoung's Avatar

    Crouching Philosopher, Hidden Philosopher

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    Posted On:
    4/06/2006 6:04pm

    supporting member
     Style: n/a (ex-Karate)

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Cymro
    ...the same Shambala cheatsheet?
    Nice one. To be honest, it is sometimes refreshing that your average sensei is a little interested in things metaphysical and existential. Perhaps they just need to be a little bit more like the samurai they are so often at pains to emulate (or at least the ideal samurai of Bushido Shoshinsu).
    Martial Arts and Philosophy: Beating and Nothingness
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  6. Cymro is offline

    Registered Member

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    Posted On:
    4/06/2006 6:43pm


     Style: Yang style Tai Chi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I'm grateful that so many of them seem to be into the spiritual/metaphysical aspects of their art. I just wish they knew more about it before they started lecturing. 'course I'm spoiled. I've gotten to work with some really sharp, educated people.

    I also have this dream where one day all Chinese stylists learn how to pronounce Chinese correctly. Not the tones, that's a bit much to even dream about...just the pronunciation.

    Ah well...
  7. DAYoung is offline
    DAYoung's Avatar

    Crouching Philosopher, Hidden Philosopher

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    Posted On:
    4/06/2006 6:58pm

    supporting member
     Style: n/a (ex-Karate)

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Cymro
    I'm grateful that so many of them seem to be into the spiritual/metaphysical aspects of their art. I just wish they knew more about it before they started lecturing. 'course I'm spoiled. I've gotten to work with some really sharp, educated people.

    I also have this dream where one day all Chinese stylists learn how to pronounce Chinese correctly. Not the tones, that's a bit much to even dream about...just the pronunciation.

    Ah well...
    Dare to dream, Cymro (tonally, of course).

    Actually, a colleague and I are organising a 'martial arts and philosophy' conference later this year (in Melbourne, Australia - mostly for locals, for reasons of expense). Hopefully it will be illuminating for all concerned.
    Martial Arts and Philosophy: Beating and Nothingness
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  8. Fearless Ukemi is offline
    Fearless Ukemi's Avatar

    Senior Member

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    Posted On:
    4/07/2006 7:44am


     Style: JJ of the B variety

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Cymro
    I tried aikido for a while. They had a hard time handling Chinese-style vertical fist punches. A regular boxer would have killed them.

    I then made the mistake of trying this on a guy who trained a pretty hardcore Aikikai dojo. It's good that I know how to breakfall.

    As I've said before: any style can work. What counts is how you train. The better fighter will win.

    DerAuslander: Do you ever get the feeling that most MA instructors are reading off of the same Shambala cheatsheet?
    It's tough to find an aikido dojo that train with strikers or grapplers, but when you do it's a gold mine.
  9. Fearless Ukemi is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/07/2006 7:45am


     Style: JJ of the B variety

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Cymro
    I'm grateful that so many of them seem to be into the spiritual/metaphysical aspects of their art. I just wish they knew more about it before they started lecturing. 'course I'm spoiled. I've gotten to work with some really sharp, educated people.

    I also have this dream where one day all Chinese stylists learn how to pronounce Chinese correctly. Not the tones, that's a bit much to even dream about...just the pronunciation.

    Ah well...
    Martial arts classes that lecture blow pretty hard. At least all the one's I've been to did.
  10. FredGarvinMP is offline
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    Michigan
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    Posted On:
    4/07/2006 11:44am


     Style: Koei-Kan, Aikido

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Cymro
    I tried aikido for a while. They had a hard time handling Chinese-style vertical fist punches. A regular boxer would have killed them.
    Why the heck did it matter to them which way your fist was positioned? The hand position never entered the equation in my training. I find that kind of wierd.
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