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  1. #11
    Cassius's Avatar
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Darren San
    Sorry! Of course, I wish I could invite everyone as my guest but ... I can't . My pockets aren't quite that deep. I will just have to trust that you would report back to your cronies honestly on what you participated in.
    Or you could . . . you know . . . video tape your class sparring. That would be cheaper for all of us, assuming you have access to a video camera.
    "No. Listen to me because I know what I'm talking about here." -- Hannibal

  2. #12
    TehDeadlyDimMak's Avatar
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    So what happens if someone appears at the throwdown and beats you down?

    hypothetically.

    would you buy a heavy bag?

  3. #13

    Join Date
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    Isshin-ryu Karate-do
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Ok Let's try this. Hitting the punching post (makiwara) is like weight training or resistance training. You slowly build up power in your strikes over time and with slow steadily increasing repetition. Your stance strengthens, your leg muscles strengthen, your arm muscles strengthen, your ligaments, sinews, and tendons all strengthen. You learn how to properly focus your entire body's power in that punch.

    My makiwara consists of a 2X6, reinforced a third of the way up with another 2X6. It is bolted to a bracket attached to the platform I stand on. When I first started, about a year ago, that 2X6 didn't even budge. Now, it bends pretty well. I have first hand seen my instructor snap the 2X6 in a similar makiwara. In fact, he has snapped several.

    Of course, I realize you can simply call me a liar and bad mouth this if you choose. That is fine. I have no video of this. I guess I could get some pictures taken and post them.

    Or, you could take a minute and think about what I wrote here ... tell me if you get this same result from your heavy bag training.

    Although, heavy bag work is certainly a good training tool, from what I have seen it is more of an impact /endurance training tool. Certainly not a waste of time ... just different.

    I am sure that the guy working the heavy bag can develop a strong punch! I can also pretty much say that I would not want to be on the receiving end of the punch that snapped that 2X6.

    And, no , I can't do that yet. But, ... I am still working on it.

  4. #14

    Join Date
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by G8
    do you train alive, with full contact, at multiple ranges of combat?

    Yes, we do ... but with a few minor exceptions. We don't strike each other full contact in the throat, eyes, groin, etc. for practice purposes.

    Training partners seem to get scarce when you do that to often. Medium to light contact in those areas generally suffices to get the point across.

  5. #15

    Join Date
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Damn, Got to go!! I will be back. Please post. I will work on videos.

  6. #16
    Evil Betty's Avatar
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    Sep 2005
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    Style
    BJJ
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    The makiwara is the dumbest training tool ever made. Seriously, how low does your IQ have to be to think those damn things are useful. And what the **** are you gonna say when you're at or past middle age with terrible arthritis? "Oh well at least I'm teh deadly!"

    I trained at a "traditional" karate club. As "traditional" as it gets, my friend. That was the most useless **** ever. No alive training allowed until black belt level, and no one was allowed to even see a sparring class if they weren't black belt. Yeah, I'm sure their sparring was WAY alive and brutal! "Traditional" martial arts my ass, real traditional training is the most direct, safe, and effective way of turning people into true fighters. And it contains none of the hypothetical bullshit of modern or "traditional" karate.
    Last edited by Evil Betty; 4/04/2006 4:47pm at .

  7. #17
    FredGarvinMP's Avatar
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    Sep 2005
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    Michigan
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    Koei-Kan, Aikido
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Darren San
    Ok Let's try this. Hitting the punching post (makiwara) is like weight training or resistance training. You slowly build up power in your strikes over time and with slow steadily increasing repetition. Your stance strengthens, your leg muscles strengthen, your arm muscles strengthen, your ligaments, sinews, and tendons all strengthen. You learn how to properly focus your entire body's power in that punch.

    My makiwara consists of a 2X6, reinforced a third of the way up with another 2X6. It is bolted to a bracket attached to the platform I stand on. When I first started, about a year ago, that 2X6 didn't even budge. Now, it bends pretty well. I have first hand seen my instructor snap the 2X6 in a similar makiwara. In fact, he has snapped several.

    Of course, I realize you can simply call me a liar and bad mouth this if you choose. That is fine. I have no video of this. I guess I could get some pictures taken and post them.

    Or, you could take a minute and think about what I wrote here ... tell me if you get this same result from your heavy bag training.

    Although, heavy bag work is certainly a good training tool, from what I have seen it is more of an impact /endurance training tool. Certainly not a waste of time ... just different.

    I am sure that the guy working the heavy bag can develop a strong punch! I can also pretty much say that I would not want to be on the receiving end of the punch that snapped that 2X6.

    And, no , I can't do that yet. But, ... I am still working on it.
    If I may interject a couple of things...

    First, I think you came off pretty bad in your OP. This has happened many a time and the poster, usually, gets roasted pretty bad. You started off in a hole. I appreciate what you are trying to do, but you're at the end of a long line of people who have tried before you.

    Second, I would suggest dropping the makiwara argument. Personally, I think they are mostly a waste of time. The measure of success here is the use of your art in a sparring or some other kind of representation of real life. Makiwara training, in my experience, doesn't do too much to help in that department. Getting into a set stance and wailing away on a stationary object doesn't happen in sparring. What good is a wicked strong punch if you can't use it while you and your target are both in motion? While it is a sign of training, I think it should be pushed down on the list of priorities while training. A heavy bag workout is light years ahead of a makiwara in training to fight a real person. Of course, that's just my opinion. I may be wrong.

    Lastly, there has been a lot of recognition of good TMA karate on this site. For example, look at the comments in the thread entitled "Full contact karate." You might also want to watch the video associated with it. It will give you a great glimpse into what is considered good stuff here. You also might want to check out the Kyokushin videos here. There are two in particular that are awesome. The "100 man kumite" and "30 man kumite" are pretty damned good stuff.

  8. #18
    Darkpaladin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
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    _razilian _iu _itsu
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Darren San
    Ok Let's try this. Hitting the punching post (makiwara) is like weight training or resistance training. You slowly build up power in your strikes over time and with slow steadily increasing repetition. Your stance strengthens, your leg muscles strengthen, your arm muscles strengthen, your ligaments, sinews, and tendons all strengthen. You learn how to properly focus your entire body's power in that punch.

    My makiwara consists of a 2X6, reinforced a third of the way up with another 2X6. It is bolted to a bracket attached to the platform I stand on. When I first started, about a year ago, that 2X6 didn't even budge. Now, it bends pretty well. I have first hand seen my instructor snap the 2X6 in a similar makiwara. In fact, he has snapped several.

    Of course, I realize you can simply call me a liar and bad mouth this if you choose. That is fine. I have no video of this. I guess I could get some pictures taken and post them.
    So it's that thing that Steven Segal was punching during his training montage in "Hard To Kill."
    No problems, we'll just hit up a blockbuster for some detailed demonstrations.

    Nobody here really likes bashing styles, we like bashing unsubstantiated and unrealistic claims. Some styles make more unrealistic claims than others. Claiming that we don't know "the real Karate" is the same as the people who say we don't know "the real _ing _un" or "the real Aikido". In fact, I don't think anyone really cares. Do whatever the hell you want, but claiming "the real" on a forum will get you precisely dick.
    :google:

    Number of bottles of beer downed by me and my girlfriend within a half hour while playing the Channel 7 "how many times will they say 'snow' game" during the "Blizzard of '06": 3.5 each.

  9. #19
    Cassius's Avatar
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    What FredGarvinMP said. I don't think anyone is out to roast Karate in particular, just shitty Karate. If you can show us good Karate, that'd be great. Just don't start a thread ranting about it and expect it to go anywhere useful.

    Darren: thanks for offering to make a video of sparring. Evidence speaks much louder than a war of words. Sorry we got off on the wrong foot.
    "No. Listen to me because I know what I'm talking about here." -- Hannibal

  10. #20
    "I feel naked I was so distracted by your penis"
    Dagon Akujin's Avatar
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    XMA =/= TMA

    BJJ = TMA

    :ninja7:

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