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  1. Meager is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/04/2006 11:39pm


     Style: BJJ & MT

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    He's complaining about stand ups at all, rounds and time limits. Not the 30 seconds stand ups you see now. They've been standing people up for inactivity in the UFC (and MMA in general) for years.
  2. Gerry Mansfield is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/05/2006 12:52am


     Style: Tae Kwon Do

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Gracies a McDojo? No F*%$ing doubt!!!

    Helios Gracie interview.
    Between the 18th and 20th minute he talks about Carlson Garcie's son who gives a certificate to somebody who buys BJJ tapes. He doesn't think about it positive but approves it because he thinks the real BJJ should only be known by Gracie family members.

    In the interview he mentions that in Brazil people starve. The minimum wage is 100$ but in Americs it's 1000 or 2000$. That's why the Gracies expanded. To make money.
    [/QUOTE]

    I've been working on a theory about some of the threads that are appearing all over this site,about the Gracie Clan( and yes I believe they are becoming a $$ oriented MA or dare I say a McDojo?).
    Please bear with me I'm not a writer and I'm not paranoid, I'm a Boxer, so I'm not even into Martial arts, per say!

    There is Marketing strategie called "Guerilla marketing" that has become very popular in the past 10 years or so.
    Ever hear the saying that there is no such thing as bad publicity?
    I think the Gracies and or their Marketing firm in Brazil, have started a campain to discredit ALL other Martial arts, even traditional forms of JJ, where they spawned from!
    The plan of attack is, that if some of the other styles start to talk smack about BJJ or claim anything about their style etc.., they have a panel of experts online to answer or revoke any comments,(remember they are experts at this, we're just a bunch of fighting palukas).
    The more you talk about some thing the more popular it becomes.

    McDonalds = The movie "Supper size me", I have a friend that wrote a Marketing thesis and stated that McDonalds paid for, Produced and shot the movie just before they launched the new menu of healthier food!

    I Know a lot of people that didn't eat MacDonalds, go out and try it, just to make sure it was as bad as the movie said or even to try the new food!
    If 1% of the North american Population tries it 3 Million people will spend $5 to $10 bucks you do the Math.( It was a Documentary, it probably cost less than a Million to produce).

    That is exactly what BJJ is doing on this site, you want proof, read a few threads, go through all of them and decide for yourself.
    How much do you think it costs to keep someone on this site, Maybe they are even some of the Gracies(I doubt that myself, English language and all)

    I Live in Ottawa Canada and there is a Gracie school across the street from my Boxing Gym,They tried to recruit me for their school!!!!

    P.SW. What the **** is Brazilian Jiu Jitsu doing in Canada???????

    Now that being said, I don't think Mods on the site care or if they're Involved but ya gotta admit, there are a lot of sweet looking adds on here?

    No Doubt, just watch how many BJJ guys come out and bash this post, I'm expecting G8 first then, he'll get the rest of the crew on it( or maybe G8 have many computors and Many names and posts on all the threads???).
    They will, without a doubt, change direction of the thread( by the way you guys, they've already done it on this thread, PAY ATTENTION!!!).

    Let's keep the conversation on subject, Are the Gracies becoming a McDojo, You're fucking right they are!

    You're up G8
    P.S. nice job changing the subject.
  3. Meager is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/05/2006 1:07am


     Style: BJJ & MT

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I wish the Gracies paid me to post on the internet.
  4. Cassius is online now
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    Posted On:
    4/05/2006 1:15am

    supporting memberforum leader
     Style: Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Gerry Mansfield
    Logorrhea
    Hi. I'm a BJJ blue belt. You'll find I was criticizing Helio Gracie for being a nut. You'll find Gumby, an accomplished purple belt criticizing them. If you look around the site, you'll find Yrkoon9 criticizing the **** out of them.

    The Gracies aren't perfect. Neither is BJJ. It's incomplete. Good thing we BJJers generally crosstrain to shore those weaknesses up, huh?

    What's your excuse?

    Edit: I don't know whether or not I should take that post seriously. I'm hoping he's just trolling . . .
    "No. Listen to me because I know what I'm talking about here." -- Hannibal
  5. hapkido_keith is offline
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    Crappler Extraordinaire

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    Posted On:
    4/05/2006 1:52am

    supporting member
     Style: Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Dagon Akujin
    Bleah. That crazy old man is still a god in my book. You sometimes have to let crazy old patriarchs be crazy. Sometimes that's what makes them so fucking cool. Sometimes you scratch your head and go "WTF". But if Helio wore giant gold chains and oversize sunglasses everywhere, surrounded by an entourage of 18-year old floosies, I'd still think he was an awsome 90-year old son-of-a-bitch... and I mean all that in a very endeering way.
    The same could be said about Morihei Ueshiba. If someone takes Helio's crazy old rablings to heart, are they better or worse than those who take Ueshiba's crazy old ramblings to heart? Seriously, do you think more highly of those who buy into BJJ Bullshido or Aikido Bullshido?
  6. Jadran is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/05/2006 2:14am


     Style: N/A

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by hapkido_keith
    The same could be said about Morihei Ueshiba. If someone takes Helio's crazy old rablings to heart, are they better or worse than those who take Ueshiba's crazy old ramblings to heart? Seriously, do you think more highly of those who buy into BJJ Bullshido or Aikido Bullshido?
    Neither. Everbody who can't think with their own heads is a sucker for draining money from him. It can be from BJJ or Muay Thai to Yellow Bamboo and RadKi. It's not about the effectivness of the martial art but the way it's marketed to the people. I respect BJJ as a martial art but it's money oriented.
    Last edited by Jadran; 4/05/2006 2:18am at .
  7. Cassius is online now
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    Posted On:
    4/05/2006 3:52am

    supporting memberforum leader
     Style: Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Jadran
    I respect BJJ as a martial art but it's money oriented.
    If by this you mean that supply and demand have dictated the price of BJJ is higher than many other martial arts, I agree.

    I do not expect instructors that make their living primarily by teaching to beggar themselves just so we can train for a pittance. The money you pay for at BJJ is well worth it if you take advantage of what it has to offer. Look at American Top Team. Their schools are generally expensive, but with that expense you get extremely nice facilities, the opportunity to train with some of the best grapplers and MMA fighters in the world, etc etc etc. Beyond that, the money you pay is a reflection of the hard training you get at a BJJ school. If the dropout rate wasn't so high, the prices would undoubtedly be lower, and then we would all be happier. Too bad most people are too ***** to cut it.

    At most schools, a HUGE amount of dues goes into the facilities. If you would like to offer your local BJJ club a free place to train that is large, open, padded with mats that run into the thousands/tens of thousands of dollars, and well-maintained, I'm sure they would jump at the chance.

    Most BJJ clubs and schools that are cheap that also happen to be nice are usually subsidized by a University or taught by an instructor that has another job.

    Stop whining about money.
    "No. Listen to me because I know what I'm talking about here." -- Hannibal
  8. PointyShinyBurn is offline
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    Gnarly King of Half-Guard

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    Posted On:
    4/05/2006 5:03am

    Join us... or die
     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Mansfield just spewed such a stream of drivel I feel compelled to respond.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gerry Mansfield
    I've been working on a theory about some of the threads that are appearing all over this site,about the Gracie Clan( and yes I believe they are becoming a $$ oriented MA or dare I say a McDojo?).
    Please bear with me I'm not a writer and I'm not paranoid, I'm a Boxer, so I'm not even into Martial arts, per say!
    Why is boxing not a martial art?
    Quote Originally Posted by Gerry Mansfield
    There is Marketing strategie called "Guerilla marketing" that has become very popular in the past 10 years or so.
    Ever hear the saying that there is no such thing as bad publicity?
    I think the Gracies and or their Marketing firm in Brazil, have started a campain to discredit ALL other Martial arts, even traditional forms of JJ, where they spawned from!
    The plan of attack is, that if some of the other styles start to talk smack about BJJ or claim anything about their style etc.., they have a panel of experts online to answer or revoke any comments,(remember they are experts at this, we're just a bunch of fighting palukas).
    The more you talk about some thing the more popular it becomes.
    The Gracie methodology for disrediting teachers and styles is a little more direct than this. They show up at your Dojo with a video camera and choke you the **** out. Most BJJ players will do the same for anyone who asks nicely. Effectiveness is its marketing strategy.

    Also, BJJ != GJJ. I, and most of the BJJ players on this site, train at places that give Helio, Rorion and the rest not a single penny.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gerry Mansfield
    McDonalds = The movie "Supper size me", I have a friend that wrote a Marketing thesis and stated that McDonalds paid for, Produced and shot the movie just before they launched the new menu of healthier food!
    Your friend is a moron, what company would produce a movie that says their food causes liver failure? Do you have any evidence for this potentially libelous contention, or are you just blowing smoke?
    Quote Originally Posted by Gerry Mansfield
    I Know a lot of people that didn't eat MacDonalds, go out and try it, just to make sure it was as bad as the movie said or even to try the new food!
    If 1% of the North american Population tries it 3 Million people will spend $5 to $10 bucks you do the Math.( It was a Documentary, it probably cost less than a Million to produce).
    Your other friends are morons, they heard that something causes liver failure so they went out and tried it.

    In addition, if 3.6 million fewer people tried McDonalds because their hunger was sated by popcorn at the cinema watching the film, you do the math. Or, possibly, do you need numbers from the real world to prove things?
    Quote Originally Posted by Gerry Mansfield
    That is exactly what BJJ is doing on this site, you want proof, read a few threads, go through all of them and decide for yourself.
    How much do you think it costs to keep someone on this site, Maybe they are even some of the Gracies(I doubt that myself, English language and all)
    So this site was set up to criticise BJJ so that people would go and try it to see if it's really that bad? It's obvious by your logic that the site is in fact a coaltion between Phil Elmore, Ashida Kim and Fang Shen Do.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gerry Mansfield
    I Live in Ottawa Canada and there is a Gracie school across the street from my Boxing Gym,They tried to recruit me for their school!!!!
    The cunning fuckers probably even offered you a free lesson to see if you liked it!
    Quote Originally Posted by Gerry Mansfield
    P.SW. What the **** is Brazilian Jiu Jitsu doing in Canada???????
    Teaching people to **** up stand up strikers like yourself.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gerry Mansfield
    Now that being said, I don't think Mods on the site care or if they're Involved but ya gotta admit, there are a lot of sweet looking adds on here?
    See any for Gracie Jiu Jitsu? What's your point again?
    Quote Originally Posted by Gerry Mansfield
    No Doubt, just watch how many BJJ guys come out and bash this post, I'm expecting G8 first then, he'll get the rest of the crew on it( or maybe G8 have many computors and Many names and posts on all the threads???).
    They will, without a doubt, change direction of the thread( by the way you guys, they've already done it on this thread, PAY ATTENTION!!!).
    "I talked a load of bollocks and people contradicted me, irrevocable proof that I'm right."

    Gerry Mansfield is a paedophile. PAY ATTENTION!!! and see if he bashes this post.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gerry Mansfield
    Let's keep the conversation on subject, Are the Gracies becoming a McDojo, You're fucking right they are!
    GJJ schools are overpriced; Rorion's insistence that only he has the real BJJ is nonsense and Helio has gone a little funny in his old age. You're the one who introduced this fascinating conspiracy theory sub plot.
    Last edited by PointyShinyBurn; 4/05/2006 5:10am at .
  9. FictionPimp is offline

    Sexiest Punching Bag Alive

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    Posted On:
    4/05/2006 7:26am


     Style: BJJ/Judo/Boxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    "So this site was set up to criticise BJJ so that people would go and try it to see if it's really that bad?"

    My wife pisses me off all the time. She will get some food that sucks and say "OMG this is the worst food I've ever ate. Here taste this."
  10. Fitz is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/05/2006 9:48am


     Style: Judo, Tomiki Aikido, ??

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Conspiracy nuttery aside, let's stick to the actual interview.

    Helios comments on Sport BJJ essentially suggest that if you only concentrate on the sportive elements of the art and only by the controlled safety rules used in formal competition there is a good chance you are going to get yourself hurt or worse in a competative situation where the rules are not in place (strict NHB) or in a real fight.

    Without descending into Philisms, who doesn't realize that there is a difference between people people decideing to enter into a match to test a specfici part of their skills, a match with not rules that would draw upon all of their skillss and two people getting into a conflict because one wants to mug/harm/kill the other and the other one is trying to stop them?

    He suggests that most BJJ practitioners have only concentrated on the Sportive aspects emphasising only groundwork without looking to integrate a more practical, combative attitude towards the art. As such most of them have lame upright skills and don't bother to try and train in any of the upright material that Helios has worked out over the years. In contrast his own family have learned this neglected aspect and used it effectively in NHB competitions where they could not rely upon just their groundwork.

    Hey, wait a minute, isn't this attitude exactly the same one that propels so many BJJ practitioners towards crosstraining in other arts since the BJJ they've learned seemed to be dubious at upright work?

    He laughs about people, including family members, attempting to cash in on how kids' success by selling certifications for watching videos. He suggests that a lot of people claiming to teach his art are actually frauds trying to cash in on interest, but isn't too concerned since it weeds people out and makes those really interested hunt down better sources.

    Wait a minute, isn't that in part what Bullshido.net has done?

    There really wasn't anything terribly controvertial or counterintuitive in what Helios was saying.
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