Gracies partially McDojo!?

**Askari** · Posted On: 4/10/2006 4:30pm

Askari - "soldier, guard, armed attendant." (N-1) singular, a poster on Bullshido, (2) an individual who has trained at most BJJ and JJJ clubs in Ottawa, (3) trained at a number of BJJ clubs, JJJ and Judo clubs in other cities.

Racism: The belief that race accounts for differences in human character or ability and that a particular race is superior to others.
Discrimination or prejudice based on race, including references to language use and colour of that persons skin.

So yes, I take affront at your prejoritive comments about Arabs and the Arabic language.

**Gerry Mansfield** · Posted On: 4/10/2006 4:33pm

[QUOTE=Jitsuman][QUOTE=Gerry Mansfield]

Originally Posted by Jitsuman

No. competition at tournies is not a requirment. Competition among your peers however, is. (this is how the Gracies stay away from the black belt factory BS found in other martial arts)

So his schools don't just give away belts, do you have to" fight against instructors to get a Black Belt"?( if not, how do you ever get a black belt?) Will Renzo do all the tests?

To gain rank, and move to the next belt, you must be able to tap everyone at your current rank. To make blue belt, you have to be able to tap all the whites, and some of the blues. There by proving you deserve to be a blue belt.

How many people students does Renzo have in his NYC school( If I have to tap out 30 other white belts? holy crap that's alot?)

This is the only way you acheive rank. It does not matter how many moves you know at all. It's how many moves you can use effectively to tap people that counts.

Like arm bars, chokes, leg locks etc... Does taping out include strikes, elbows, knees, KOs etc...?

As far as Renzo coming up and testing students of schools under his banner? Very rarely. I train currently with Renzo's first American black belt and Renzo does not come to do promotions. There is no need to. Renzo is the man and instils his values in all of his blackbelts

.
Again, how did those Black belts get their rank? they must have all tested with Renzo, will Pat Cooligan in Ottawa get tested by Renzo?( If not the system is already starting to be watered down).
P.S. How do you Instill values on someone?

Not all Gracies are the same though, and I fully admit that some of them (mainly Rorion and his ilk) run the family business like a McDojo.

It's Innevitable if they want to grow,the farther in distance from the founder the weaker the system and Values!

Renzo does not, and is known as "the cool Gracie" by anyone who's met him. The guy is a saint and in my mind far above the suspicion you are directing towards him.

Be carefull what you say on this forum.
I was with a coach for 5 years and I know what you're saying. But that sounds a little cultish.Check your words carefuly before submitting.

**Gerry Mansfield** · Posted On: 4/10/2006 5:06pm

Askari[/U] - "soldier, guard, armed attendant." (N-1) singular, a poster on Bullshido, (2) an individual who has trained at most BJJ and JJJ clubs in Ottawa, (3) trained at a number of BJJ clubs, JJJ and Judo clubs in other cities.[/QUOTE]

Thank you ! What language?( respectfuly and sincerely asked)

That is commendable. I congratulate you on your training.
You have failed to mention your record though.
Mine is :Amateur boxing 10-4-4

Racism: The belief that race accounts for differences in human character or ability and that a particular race is superior to others.
Discrimination or prejudice based on race, including references to language use and colour of that persons skin.

You have my permission to use any of my PMs to prove that I am a Racist.
The suggestion that the word ASKARI was an Arab wordfor WARRIOR was first given to me by TKD Black belt.( you have not yet called him a racist).

[

QUOTE]So yes, I take affront at your prejoritive comments about Arabs and the Arabic language.

[/QUOTE]

Prejoritive comments? I was talking about a"WORD" and it's meaning.
When and where did I type that my race was superior to anyones?

Can we get a Mod to Intervene and rule on the Racism debate?
Was I out of line with my question?
I will Appologies if warranted,
However, I demand the same from ASKARI for calling me a Racist.

want to kick in here SamuelBrowning?

**Goju - Joe** · Posted On: 4/10/2006 5:12pm

**Askari** · Posted On: 4/10/2006 5:29pm

Thank you ! What language?( respectfuly and sincerely asked)

Hello Gerry,

Askari is an arabic word - as you well know since I PM'd you the proper translation several days ago. Proffessional soldiers who serve their country sometimes do not like being refered to as Warriors as a warrior often refers to a fighter who is not connected to a legitimate military. You posted this in the guise of a PM from someone else, that other person did not post it, you posted this after I had PM'd you the proper translation.

In the current Geo-political climate legitimate use of force rests with the state. Implying that a person using an Arabic screen name that refers to soldiers and legitimate protection of the people within a country as anything illegitimate is going to get that person to be offended.

I personally find offensive your continued references to Arab warriors and miss-translation of my user name.

Also that you were defensive against the use of the word "brother" implies that you have problems with words that are more commonly used by persons with darker skin. Your extreme offence is easily interpreted as the same response that I commonly see from persons who have problems with darker skined individuals.

As a result I interpret your posting as racist posting. If you did not intend it this way, please post a retraction. The fact that you required this explanation increases the likelyhood that you were posting in this fashion in order to offend me personally through the above mentioned references.

Otherwise, Goju-Joe has posted the correct.
:icon_salu
I am now going to ignore this thread and go back to punking on Fang Shen Do.

**TKD Black Belt** · Posted On: 4/10/2006 5:35pm

As it would seem Askari, Gerry responds to two types of posts:

1.) All out assaults on his position that carry neither finesse or subtly and which are responded to in kind.

2.) Posts that seem to somehow support his position, of note is that he'll grab on to anything however tenuous in hopes of finding some sort of positive affirmation for his
beliefs.

I would suggest that if you want anything closely resembling a coherent and well thought out arguement you refrain from getting into direct conversations with him. I would further suggest that it is dangerous to argue with an idiot as they tend to have more practice thinking at that level than the rest of us.

TKD

PS - You also failed to mention that 'brother' could have been an homage as it where to 80's wrestling superstar Terry 'Hulk' Hogan!

Just in case you forgot Gerry - http://www.bullshido.net/forums/show...&postcount=125

**Gerry Mansfield** · Posted On: 4/10/2006 8:32pm

[QUOTE=Askari]Hello Gerry,

Askari is an arabic word - as you well know since I PM'd you the proper translation several days ago. Proffessional soldiers who serve their country sometimes do not like being refered to as Warriors as a warrior often refers to a fighter who is not connected to a legitimate military. You posted this in the guise of a PM from someone else, that other person did not post it, you posted this after I had PM'd you the proper translation.

NO, TKD Black belt Pm'd me and told me what the word ASKARI means, I never would have known or asked.( TKD Black belt is Lying to you)

In the current Geo-political climate legitimate use of force rests with the state. Implying that a person using an Arabic screen name that refers to soldiers and legitimate protection of the people within a country as anything illegitimate is going to get that person to be offended.

I never Implied anything of the sort. I am not a racist!

I personally find offensive your continued references to Arab warriors and miss-translation of my user name.

Blame TKD Black Belt, I was simply asking if he was correct( You still have my permission to use any or all of My PMs to prove your point.
The fact that you are leaving this thread is proof that you are a liar or that you refuse to believe that a member of your own fold would lie to you( TKD Black belt).
SHOW ME THE PROOF! Once again you have my permission!

Also that you were defensive against the use of the word "brother" implies that you have problems with words that are more commonly used by persons with darker skin. Your extreme offence is easily interpreted as the same response that I commonly see from persons who have problems with darker skined individuals.

I am 1/4 First Nation.My family is of mixed heritage both North American, Jamaican and eastern European, I have 2 brothers.

As a result I interpret your posting as racist posting. If you did not intend it this way, please post a retraction. The fact that you required this explanation increases the likelyhood that you were posting in this fashion in order to offend me personally through the above mentioned references.

I officialy appologise to ASKARI, if I in anyway offended him or his pround heritage by asking an insensitive question of a word of which I was unclear.
I was attempting to confirm the translation of the word that was incorrectly translated for me by TKD Black Belt without a request for said word.( I will ask TKD Black Belt for his permission to post his PM to me)
I am not a racist.
I am however sensitive to your concern.
Sincerely
Gerry Mansfield

**Askari** · Posted On: 4/10/2006 8:41pm

Gerry,

Man up, I accept your appology and in turn appologise for my not being sensitive to your own heritage. Canada is a great and multi-ethnic society, we need to live together even if we occasionally attend a McDojo.

I would like to correct though your slight misunderstanding. People on this site are ganging up on you because we disagree with the content of your posts. I train BJJ not TKD.

Oh, and yes I have on occasion trained at Bob Carver's, excellent instructor and great stand up fighter who has produced great stand up fighters. Most clubs in Ottawa will let outsiders attend seminars - and in fact for the good seminars (Innosanto etc) you will usually have a large number of people attend from other clubs, so it is not uncommon to train at almost every club in town.

Sorry if you were under the miss-understanding that I trained at only one place.

But seriously, how can someone get complete instruction if they only ever drink from one tea cup? Multi-disciplinary is the way to go in this world. I'll take the pak-sao from Wing Chun, kali strikes 1&2, add in a good boxing structure, spend a few years wrestling, a belt or two in Jiu-Jitsu, go take a seminar in Mua Thai.

Learning never ends. Unless you stick to only one style.

**Gerry Mansfield** · Posted On: 4/10/2006 9:03pm

[QUOTE=TKD Black Belt]As it would seem Askari, Gerry responds to two types of posts:

1.) All out assaults on his position that carry neither finesse or

subtly

and which are responded to in kind.

You mean Subtelety?
Idiot: a unlearned uneducated person.

2.) Posts that seem to somehow support his position, of note is that he'll grab on to anything however tenuous in hopes of finding some sort of positive affirmation for his
beliefs.

You mean like a member of the Renzo Gracie American Black belt team in NYC?
(jitsuman)

I would suggest that if you want anything closely resembling a coherent and well thought out arguement you refrain from getting into direct conversations with him. I would further suggest that it is dangerous to argue with an

idiot

as they tend to have more practice thinking at that level than the rest of us

IDIOT: a man in private station as distinguished from one holding a public office.
I refuse to be part of your Martial arts culture.

TKD

Please give me permission to post your PM addressed to me regarding the translation of the word ASKARI

PS - You also failed to mention that 'brother' could have been an homage as it where to 80's wrestling superstar Terry 'Hulk' Hogan!

Liars and a Racist like you are one of the reasons that I am not participating in the Martial arts.

P.S. once again congratulations on your "red herring".
Assaulting me on a personal level,You guys have derailed a conversation that I was obviously making progress with.
SEE (Jitsumans)comments.

**Gerry Mansfield** · Posted On: 4/10/2006 9:32pm

Originally Posted by Askari

Gerry,

Learning never ends. Unless you stick to only one style.

Let's get back on track then,
Don't tell me that you don't smell a little Mcdojo from Some of the Gracies, My Opinion( and it's only my opinion) is that Renzo is part of it.
In Jitsumans defense though, When you have trained with a coach, you develop a bond and a friendship through hard training right?
I have developed a life long friendship with my coach even though I was not the best Boxer I could have easily blamed him for my loses, but I, like jitsuman would rather believe that he was a "saint" and stick with him through thick and thin, right or wrong, win or loose.

I feel that some of the members on this board are lacking in Loyalty and Honesty
I feel sorry that they will never experience the "us against the world" friendship you share with a coach( or Instructor).
Million dollar Baby( remember the guy that couldn't box to save his life, got his ass kicked by a cocky boxer, earned more respect from his coach that the man that had more skill)
Respect is never given only earned.

G