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  1. Askari is offline

    The Bottom Brick

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    Apr 2005
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    Posted On:
    2/16/2006 10:11pm


     Style: BJJ, Ju-Jitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Is your martial art a Cult?

    I found a checklist that I was tempted to put into the Feng Shen Do thread, however I thought it more appropriate on its own to seperate the discussion a bit.

    I found the information on this site. The information is for any cult like behaviour. I would suggest if your Martial Art hits more then a few of these something is wrong. And yeah, I have seen clubs exactly like this.

    The following is an excerpt from the book "Captive Hearts, Captive minds", by Madeline Tobias and Janja Lalich adapted from information compiled by Dr. Micheal Langone.

    Checklist of Cult Characteristics

    "Comparing the following statements to the group with which you or a family member or loved one is involved may help you determine if this involvement is cause for concern. If you check any of these items as characteristic of the group in question, and particularly if you check many of them you may well be dealing with a cult and should critically examine the group and its relationship to you or your loved one.

    1) The group is focused on a living leader to whom members display excessively zealous, unquestioning commitment.

    2) The group is preoccupied with bringing in new members and/or making money.

    3) Questioning, doubt, and dissent are discouraged.

    4) Mind-numbing techniques (for example: meditation, chanting, denunciation sessions, or debilitating work routines) are used to suppress members' doubts.

    5) The group's leadership dictates how members should think, act, and feel (for example: members must get permission from leaders to date, change jobs, or get married;) leaders may determine types of clothes to wear, where to live, how to discipline children, and so forth.

    6) The group is elitist, claiming a special, exalted status for itself, it's leader(s), and members (for example: the leader is considered the Messiah or an avatar; the group and/or the leader has a special mission to save humanity).

    7) The group has a polarized we-they mentality that causes conflict with the wider society.

    8) The group's leader is not accountable to any authorities (as are, for example, military commanders and ministers, priests, monks, and rabbis of mainstream denominations).

    9) The group teaches or implies that its "superior" ends justify means that members would have
    considered unethical before joining the group (for example: collecting money for bogus charities).

    10) The group's leadership induces guilt feelings in members in order to control then

    11) Members'subservience to the group causes them to give up previous personal goats and interests while devoting inordinate amounts of time to the groups."

    12) Members are encouraged or required to live and/or socialize only with other group members.
  2. Sford is offline

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    Dec 2005
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    San Antonio, Texas
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    58

    Posted On:
    2/16/2006 10:33pm


     Style: Lazy Spectator

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Similar information about cultist MA can found here as well.
  3. AikiZenDragon is offline

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    henderson, nc
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    Posted On:
    2/16/2006 10:41pm


     Style: Aikido

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    i was going to post that link Sford... it's a pretty good site...

    11) Members'subservience to the group causes them to give up previous personal "goats" and interests while devoting inordinate amounts of time to the groups."

    i have never given up my goats, nor devoted inordinate amounts of time to other's goats... :toothy10:
  4. Firebrand is offline

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    Oct 2005
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    Posted On:
    2/16/2006 10:50pm


     Style: BJJ, Sambo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    How many of those conditions must be met in order for a martial art to qualify as a cult? I believe many martial arts would meet some of those conditions.
  5. Simon McNeil is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/16/2006 10:57pm


     Style: Hei Long Gong Fu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    The first four are pretty common in martial arts groups. The rest would be pretty clear warning signs.



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  6. BlackStalyon is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/16/2006 11:01pm


     Style: Muay Thai

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    MAny of them seem obvious, especially things like giving away all your valuables and such. Haven't we seen enough television to know better?
  7. AikiZenDragon is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/16/2006 11:04pm


     Style: Aikido

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    a good martial arts teacher will encourage questions... so even # 1 and 3 should send warnings... meditation is not mind numbing, unless your mind is already numb...
  8. Plasma is online now
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    Bullshido Administrator

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    Posted On:
    2/16/2006 11:08pm

    supporting memberforum leaderstaff
     Style: Bullshido's Ninja

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I guess not by those extreme questions. But I consider my Dojo an cult. Its a good cult ;)

    Student: Koppojutsu hurts
    Sensei: Pain is good. You like getting hit. Hit me.
    Student : *Punches Sensei*
    Sensei: Good, see
    Student: "Hai Sensei, I like pain!"
    Last edited by Plasma; 2/16/2006 11:10pm at .
  9. Simon McNeil is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/16/2006 11:13pm


     Style: Hei Long Gong Fu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by AikiZenDragon
    a good martial arts teacher will encourage questions... so even # 1 and 3 should send warnings... meditation is not mind numbing, unless your mind is already numb...
    I don't think they are good practice but I also don't think that they are signs of a cult... just a mcdojo.
  10. Poop Loops is offline
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    OOOOOOOOOOAAARRGGHH RLY?

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    Posted On:
    2/16/2006 11:30pm

    supporting member
     Style: In Transition

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Simon McNeil
    The first four are pretty common in martial arts groups.
    Only in shitty ones.
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