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  1. rexkwon is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/04/2006 12:45pm


     Style: Thai boxing , JJ ,TKD

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Takahama , the techniques, we have to know the Judo techniques and others,the katas are offered like 2 times a month for the people who want to cross test in Judo, but are not part of a normal class.

    We randori some by Judo rules but mostly by the sport JJ rules or MMA rules.
    Almost ever one cross test .
    Last edited by rexkwon; 4/04/2006 1:06pm at .
  2. Gezere is offline
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    My guns bigger than Scrapper's!

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    Posted On:
    4/04/2006 1:45pm

    supporting member
     Style: Kakutogi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    My point was that throws to drop them on their face or head first (which wouldn't be ippon throw) would cause more injury then throw that would be ippon.
    No **** sherlock. Landing on you head is going to **** you up but you still haven't made a good point. Judo wasn't designed to KILL somone it was designed for physical culture and selfdefense. There for a textbook throw will do enough to allow you to defend yourself but I sure every Judoka understand that the could set someone on there head or hold the are in gyaku instead of juntai when doing the throw to break it as well.

    As for Atemi, u kno far better than I that striking aspect in most Kodokan Judo is sort of laughable if not almost like poor karate.
    I know that the striking wasn't something to use as a means to KO a person but used to get the clinch and throw. So if you know what is supposed be used for its not laughable. Karate, MT, Boxing, etc were designed to KO a person that is a different goal than Judo.

    Takahama , the techniques, we have to know the Judo techniques and others,the katas are offered like 2 times a month for the people who want to cross test in Judo, but are not part of a normal class.

    We randori some by Judo rules but mostly by the sport JJ rules or MMA rules.
    Almost ever one cross test .
    I am not familary with Takahama Jujutsu, It seems you have a school that has incorporated alot of Judo so yeah the techniques would be the same.
    ______
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  3. Teh El Macho is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/04/2006 2:01pm

    supporting member
     Style: creonte on hiatus

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I gotta say that I taught a basic hip throw to one of my sisters when she was a teen, o goshi to be exact. Teaching that was just plain dumb easy, and she picked it up very quicly (I had her threw me on a mattress a couple of times until she got the hang of it.) And she actually used it once for SD pretty successfully. Basic throws are a lot simpler to learn and much higher percentage moves than ground work... and the operative word here is simpler.

    The topic of the thread is about which art, JJ (which most assumed to be BJJ) or Judo, is better suited for self-defense. The thing is, if you are quite proficient in either, most likely you can defend yourself and have the stamina and aggression to make up for other things that you may lack. And most likely, you chose to train and become proficient for competivitive and physical reasons, not necessarily for self-defense.

    But when somebody ask for "what is best for self-defense", the answer to that question - and that's my opinion, nothing more - has to consider techniques and principles that:

    1 - allow you to get the **** out ASAP
    2 - are high percentage for goal #1
    3 - are the easiest to learn while being high percentage successful for goal #1

    Shuma, Judo may not have an elaborate guard work from which to throw punches, but in a self-defense situation, if you end up on your back throwing punches to someone on your guard, then a lot of things failed which led you to be in a position whose avoidance is the primary objective for self-defense purposes.

    Yeah, it's good to have a ground game, but for self-defense, it's is more important to have the tools that can help you avoid the ground at best, or how to get out of it at worst... and even that may be debatable because men and women have different requirements for self-defense.

    As a guy, you may worry about the st00pid drunk jock that tries to rush you in a bar (and from whom you should have picked up enough red flags to now you and him are going for it.) For a woman, more elaborate ground work may be required, but that should not count effective guard work from where to throw punches as a viable and practical thing.

    For a person that is already proficient in Judo or BJJ, the question is what striking art to take on next. Self-defense is not much of a issue. For someone starting with the purpose of self-defense, I'd say Judo.
    Last edited by Teh El Macho; 4/04/2006 2:07pm at .
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  4. babo78 is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/04/2006 2:14pm


     Style: Yudo, Karate

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by LORD ASIA
    Judo wasn't designed to KILL somone it was designed for physical culture and selfdefense. There for a textbook throw will do enough to allow you to defend yourself
    Quote Originally Posted by LORD ASIA
    I know that the striking wasn't something to use as a means to KO a person but used to get the clinch and throw. So if you know what is supposed be used for its not laughable
    Yes, i'm not disagreeing you that clean throw won't stop opponent. but reason why i said throwing someone head down was for this where meager wasn't stopped by seoi nage to hardwood floor:

    Quote Originally Posted by Hannibal
    Now this thread is about self defense. I'm telling you now for self defense situations, you can't beat a hard throw or a takedown.
    Quote Originally Posted by Meager
    Maybe, maybe not. I've been seio naged on a hardwood floor and been perfectly fine...
    Quote Originally Posted by Hannibal
    Somone did a shoulder throw on you, you landed on a hardwooden floor and your still walking around in one piece ? Bullshit.
    so that's why i said...

    Quote Originally Posted by babo78
    for example, in shoulder throw, instead of throwing the opponent so he'll drop toward's his back. we were also taught to throw the opponent so he'll drop on his head or face first if we wanted to hurt someone.
    Quote Originally Posted by babo78
    You still can injure someone with text book throws if you do them hard but best way to injure someone is to execute the technique non-text book.
    in this case, head down first would stop meager where clean throw if it was executed did not and my guess is meager got lucky falling feet first or it was very, very poor seoi nage.

    As for second point, it's not laughable combined with kuzushi and gripping game. But for me. taking up kick boxing and other striking art helped in that area of judo even more then atemi from kodokan judo. in ure experience didn't cross training with strike art like boxing help more so then learning atemi?

    Edit: I wasn't generalizing that textbook ippon throw will not work. I'm generalizing that if textbook ippon throw won't work, there's always this option to do it.
    Last edited by babo78; 4/04/2006 2:24pm at .
  5. Hannibal is offline

    Grandmaster Sensei of Village Idiocy

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    Posted On:
    4/04/2006 9:58pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Kyokushin and Judo.

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Shuma-Gorath
    Maybe that's true for your atrophed skeletal frame since you don't actually train.

    Translation: I'm too much of a wimp to handle Judo since I don't like getting thrown. Which is why I took up BJJ.
    Hannibal: The sworn enemy of dishonest politicians, source of entertainment on Bullshido and newly appointed Office Linebacker. Terry Tait ain't got **** on me !!!!
  6. Meager is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/05/2006 12:22am


     Style: BJJ & MT

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Yrkoon9
    And I think the premise is close to the truth. You may or may not get up after bring thrown on something hard. Especially if you don't know how to fall.
    This is my point. I'm not saying getting seio naged on a hard surface is a good idea. I'm actually pretty amazed that I wasn't hurt (I landed flat on my back). But don't count on anything being a garunteed 100% fight stopper outside of a 12 gauge slug to the face. The human body will amaze you with the amount of punishment it can absorb.

    I've also been slammed on my head by a judo BB on a mat and damn near been KOed.

    Edit: Just once I'd like to see Hannibal refer to a technique by it's actual name. I'm 99% he doesn't train.
  7. Shuma-Gorath is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/05/2006 12:46am

    supporting member
     Style: BJJ - Homeland Security

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    He couldn't tell me anything about the club he supposedly trains at last time I asked.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hannibal
    Translation: I'm too much of a wimp to handle Judo since I don't like getting thrown. Which is why I took up BJJ.
    It's cute that you're trying to troll me Hannibal, but the hardest throws I've ever taken have been done in BJJ class. In Judo they spent too much time complaining that I didn't release when they tried to stand out of my triangles.
  8. JohnnyCache is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/05/2006 4:36am

    supporting memberforum leader
     Style: MMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    man

    I would get yelled at for letting go

    I love my judo club.
    There's no choice but to confront you, to engage you, to erase you. I've gone to great lengths to expand my threshold of pain. I will use my mistakes against you. There's no other choice.
  9. FictionPimp is offline

    Sexiest Punching Bag Alive

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    Posted On:
    4/05/2006 8:36am


     Style: BJJ/Judo/Boxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    The last judo class I went to, I got yelled at for 'standing up' to pass a guys guard. I was told that 'wasn't fair'.

    To be honest, the level of instruction has dropped rapidly there. I think at the end of my contact (the end of this month) I'm not going back. Its not really a problem with the skill of the teacher, its with teaching methods, the focus on sport judo, and the fact he likes to talk 90% of the time, and only let us actually train about 10% (Out of the average hour and 1/2 class, we've gone from training for an hour, to training for about 45 minutes. The rest of the time is warm ups, and listening to him correct other people/talk about someone's last fight or one of his fights when he was our age and how the sport has changed and other politics I dont care about.)

    My jiujitsu class on the other hand is different. We dont talk, we train, i'm always dead tired when I leave and I always learn something new. Plus most of the guys are training for MMA fights, so they love to start standing up. And a few of my judo friends go there as well, and I find I learn more about my judo throws in bjj then in judo anymore because I have more time to practice them.
  10. KhorneliusPraxx

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    Posted On:
    4/05/2006 8:57am


     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Wasn't fair?!?!?
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