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  1. JohnnyCache is offline
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    All Out of Bubblegum

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    Posted On:
    4/04/2006 9:35am

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     Style: MMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by babo78
    If person who threw him did a textbook shoulder throw, it's not much damaging as it is. Because if you do a text book shoulder throw, ure opponent can or could drop feet first and absorb some impact. Text book execution of techniques don't teach u 'dirty judo'

    Best way to injure someone in Judo is improper text-book execution of throws. At my old school, my instructors were cool or crazy enough to teach us how to improperly throw someone with specific intent to cause much injury as possible.

    for example, in shoulder throw, instead of throwing the opponent so he'll drop toward's his back. we were also taught to throw the opponent so he'll drop on his head or face first if we wanted to hurt someone.

    You still can injure someone with text book throws if you do them hard but best way to injure someone is to execute the technique non-text book. Like Sasae Tsurikomi Ashi, we actually did more of kick rather then sweep...that is not text-book.

    How long did you do Judo for and what rank are you?

    Edit: Spelling error.
    Or to introduce them to your knee, elbow, or forearm when you land on them
    There's no choice but to confront you, to engage you, to erase you. I've gone to great lengths to expand my threshold of pain. I will use my mistakes against you. There's no other choice.
  2. JohnnyCache is offline
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    All Out of Bubblegum

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    Posted On:
    4/04/2006 9:38am

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     Style: MMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Fearless Ukemi
    Why should anyone change their prices if people are willing to pay it?
    You can always train whoever you want - it may not be fair to dudes with more money that you charge them more, but if there's someone promising that's having trouble with dues, you can always look the other way or find some other way to take it out of them (IE a work trade of some sort, having them work around the dojo, taking a manager's cut if they're pro level, etc).
    There's no choice but to confront you, to engage you, to erase you. I've gone to great lengths to expand my threshold of pain. I will use my mistakes against you. There's no other choice.
  3. Gezere is offline
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    My guns bigger than Scrapper's!

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    Posted On:
    4/04/2006 10:39am

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     Style: Kakutogi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by babo78
    If person who threw him did a textbook shoulder throw, it's not much damaging as it is. Because if you do a text book shoulder throw, ure opponent can or could drop feet first and absorb some impact. Text book execution of techniques don't teach u 'dirty judo'.

    Best way to injure someone in Judo is improper text-book execution of throws. At my old school, my instructors were cool or crazy enough to teach us how to improperly throw someone with specific intent to cause much injury as possible.
    Uhm NO. If you do a textbook Seio Nage that is not going happen. And being thrown on mats is far different the being thrown on the ground or concrete.

    That "dirty Judo" is BS becaue if you actually read the textbooks you know alot of how to deal with a fight is covered in GOSHINJUTSU.
    ______
    Xiao Ao Jiang Hu Zhi Dong Fang Bu Bai (Laughing Proud Warrior Invincible Asia) Dark Emperor of Baji!!!

    RIP SOLDIER

    Didn't anyone ever tell him a fat man could never be a ninja
    -Gene, GODHAND

    You can't practice Judo just to win a Judo Match! You practice so that no matter what happens, you can win using Judo!
    The key to fighting two men at once is to be much tougher than both of them.
    -Daniel Tosh
  4. babo78 is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/04/2006 11:13am


     Style: Yudo, Karate

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by LORD ASIA
    Uhm NO. If you do a textbook Seio Nage that is not going happen. And being thrown on mats is far different the being thrown on the ground or concrete.

    That "dirty Judo" is BS becaue if you actually read the textbooks you know alot of how to deal with a fight is covered in GOSHINJUTSU.
    I'm going to have to disagree on first one. If you do textbook seoi nage, there's is opportunity for your opponent to land feet first then fall. And yes being thrown on hard ground or concrete is definitly far different but landing feet first then ure falling to back is less impact then just falling on ure back or falling head first.

    http://judoinfo.com/images/animation...teseoinage.htm

    What I mean by the opporunity for opponent to land feet first then body is probably demonstrated on that moving pic at bottom from link above.

    And what I meant earlier by dropping them head first is something like this (link below) 얼굴아님 머리부터 바닥으로 매치라. was basically what they said. instead of using full momentum and sping them circular so they would land back first.

    http://www.njv.de/SERVICE/Bildergale...0Seoi-Nage.jpg

    Your second point, dirty judo wasn't the exact word my instructor used he said 더러운 기술 because the aim of it wasn't to get ippon from clean throws. rather just to injure your opponent by making it hard for them to do breakfall or just outright kick them instead of using sole of your foot to sweep.

    As for fighting and goshinjutsu, I have no idea because he taught us these 더러운 기술 since the can be applied in other scenarios and that there are people if not competitors in Judo who will do these things.
  5. Shuma-Gorath is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/04/2006 11:15am

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     Style: BJJ - Homeland Security

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Hannibal
    Somone did a shoulder throw on you, you landed on a hardwooden floor and your still walking around in one piece ? Bullshit. If anyone does a correct shoulder throw or any other forward throw and you land flat on a wooden floor, then its hospital time.
    Maybe that's true for your atrophed skeletal frame since you don't actually train.
  6. Gezere is offline
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    My guns bigger than Scrapper's!

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    Posted On:
    4/04/2006 11:44am

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     Style: Kakutogi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by babo78
    I'm going to have to disagree on first one. If you do textbook seoi nage, there's is opportunity for your opponent to land feet first then fall. And yes being thrown on hard ground or concrete is definitly far different but landing feet first then ure falling to back is less impact then just falling on ure back or falling head first.

    http://judoinfo.com/images/animation...teseoinage.htm

    What I mean by the opporunity for opponent to land feet first then body is probably demonstrated on that moving pic at bottom from link above.

    And what I meant earlier by dropping them head first is something like this (link below) 얼굴아님 머리부터 바닥으로 매치라. was basically what they said. instead of using full momentum and sping them circular so they would land back first.

    http://www.njv.de/SERVICE/Bildergale...0Seoi-Nage.jpg

    Your second point, dirty judo wasn't the exact word my instructor used he said 더러운 기술 because the aim of it wasn't to get ippon from clean throws. rather just to injure your opponent by making it hard for them to do breakfall or just outright kick them instead of using sole of your foot to sweep.

    As for fighting and goshinjutsu, I have no idea because he taught us these 더러운 기술 since the can be applied in other scenarios and that there are people if not competitors in Judo who will do these things.
    Disagree if you want you're still wrong.:tongue9:

    If you do a textbook seio nage (which means you employ kuzushi) the odds that person will have the sense of mind to do that is extremely low.

    If you get an IPPON you do a clean throw, agreed? Well that goes back to why you do Judo on MATS. If you remove the mats and score an Ippon will the person be injured? I think he will.

    And lastly lets not forget that ATEMI is apart of Kodokan Judo. You are suppose to set up throws with strikes and kuzushi to keep your opponent from countering.
    ______
    Xiao Ao Jiang Hu Zhi Dong Fang Bu Bai (Laughing Proud Warrior Invincible Asia) Dark Emperor of Baji!!!

    RIP SOLDIER

    Didn't anyone ever tell him a fat man could never be a ninja
    -Gene, GODHAND

    You can't practice Judo just to win a Judo Match! You practice so that no matter what happens, you can win using Judo!
    The key to fighting two men at once is to be much tougher than both of them.
    -Daniel Tosh
  7. rexkwon is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/04/2006 12:01pm


     Style: Thai boxing , JJ ,TKD

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by LORD ASIA
    From my personal experience, JUDO is better for SD. I've used this more than JJJ or BJJ in real fights. If you Judo sucks (like Shumas does) then you will need BJJ. If your Judo is good then I don't know many pple want to keep fighting after meeting the ground at a high rate of speed.
    I have a small issue with this based on the fact that Judo forms so much of the ju-jitsu we do. It hard to see them as 2 different things . The ground has prove a fight end for me also ,even with the high school wrestling scoop and slam.
    Last edited by rexkwon; 4/04/2006 12:10pm at .
  8. Gezere is offline
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    My guns bigger than Scrapper's!

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    Posted On:
    4/04/2006 12:14pm

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     Style: Kakutogi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by rexkwon
    I have a small issue with this based on the fact that Judo forms so much of the ju-jitsu we do. It hard to see them as 2 different things .
    Which JJ do you do? And what do you mean by forms? Are you refering to the kata in Judo or specific techniques?

    Judo is simply another form of Jujutsu BUT its training methodology set it apart much like BJJ does with Traditional JJ as well. THAT is the diffrence.
    ______
    Xiao Ao Jiang Hu Zhi Dong Fang Bu Bai (Laughing Proud Warrior Invincible Asia) Dark Emperor of Baji!!!

    RIP SOLDIER

    Didn't anyone ever tell him a fat man could never be a ninja
    -Gene, GODHAND

    You can't practice Judo just to win a Judo Match! You practice so that no matter what happens, you can win using Judo!
    The key to fighting two men at once is to be much tougher than both of them.
    -Daniel Tosh
  9. Yrkoon9 is offline
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    Brock Sampson

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    Posted On:
    4/04/2006 12:35pm

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     Style: 5.56

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Blah blah blah.

    I have related this story before and think it is great!

    My instructor told me about a woman who was attacked as she was going to her car. She tried to run but was grabbed from behind. Unlucky for the attacker the woman was a national Judo competitor. Seoi Nage and the guy landed on concrete. She tried to run again and was caught again. She hit him with another Seoi Nage. Only this time he landed on a curb stop and did not get up.

    Who this was, when it happened, and all the details really didn't matter to me. It was an awesome story at the time. And I think the premise is close to the truth. You may or may not get up after bring thrown on something hard. Especially if you don't know how to fall.
  10. babo78 is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/04/2006 12:36pm


     Style: Yudo, Karate

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by LORD ASIA
    Disagree if you want you're still wrong.:tongue9:

    If you do a textbook seio nage (which means you employ kuzushi) the odds that person will have the sense of mind to do that is extremely low.

    If you get an IPPON you do a clean throw, agreed? Well that goes back to why you do Judo on MATS. If you remove the mats and score an Ippon will the person be injured? I think he will.

    And lastly lets not forget that ATEMI is apart of Kodokan Judo. You are suppose to set up throws with strikes and kuzushi to keep your opponent from countering.
    Point taken. With proper employ of kuzushi, the chance of opponent having clarity to land like that is probably near nil. Ippon throw on solid surfce will injure anyone.

    My point was that throws to drop them on their face or head first (which wouldn't be ippon throw) would cause more injury then throw that would be ippon.

    As for Atemi, u kno far better than I that striking aspect in most Kodokan Judo is sort of laughable if not almost like poor karate.
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