Jujitsu or Judo for Self Defense?

[Teh El Macho]

People with a basic knowledge of Judo can do a basic hip throw, but most likely they will end up on the ground because the person being thrown MAY clinch him or pull him (thus both going to the ground.) For self-defense purposes, a person needs to have the basics of both. For self-defense, a person needs to have the following (in increasing order of importance from a self-defense point of view):

* how to avoid being a fucking moron and stay away from trouble
* how to intelligently decide when to get the **** out
* how to punch/strike/kick and keep distance... to get the **** out
* how to throw... to get the **** out
* how to fall... then get up and try to get the **** out
* how to defend himself on the ground... then get up and try get the **** out

It's been discussed ad nauseam that neither Judo, BJJ/JJ or Boxing will teach the last four by themselves. The first two come from common sense.

For self-defense purposes, it would be nice if there were a MA that stresses those techniques from Judo/Wrestling, BJJ/ground work and boxing that are the most effective in a self-defense scenario, for self-defense purposes... AND that those techniques are taught and practice with the same methodical rigor as in Judo, Wresting, BJJ or Boxing...

...but maybe that's like wishing to save the whales or something.

[Cassius]

elnyka: Six months from now an overeager Krav Maga student is going to find your post and necro the thread to explain to everyone that Krava Maga is the perfect art for self defense because it has all the qualities you expound.

Get ready to be enlightened.

[ToofLess]

For self-defense, I like the boxing-judo combination the best. Shuma-Gorath is right when he says that takedowns in actual practice usually boil down to a few simple judo techniques (hip throw, leg takedown, maybe a sweep if you're slick) -- you don't see a lot of crab throws going down outside of bars -- but I've found that fights that start out as one-on-one during standup rapidly become buddies-kicking-grapplers-in-the-head fights when they go to the ground.

I think Americans (at least) are most comfortable with the concept of a boxing match, whoever's winning. When a fight goes to the ground, and somebody starts choking somebody else out, there's a general crowd consensus of "oh, no he didn't" and people start jumping in. Or maybe it's just opportunism. I think this is why BJJ was so maligned in the early UFC days; it just seems a little cheat-y for people who grew up on Chuck Norris and John Wayne to pull guard and lay around for six weeks while the fat guy on top tires himself out trying to figure out what the hell to do. Maybe it's the movies or something. But I've seen guys who trained quite diligently and hard in BJJ get their teeth kicked in because they went for an RNC on the ground and the "victim's" buddies, who had previously stayed back to let them punch it out, took offense and dove in.

If you can punch your way into a nasty takedown, then stay on your feet, man, I say that's the way to go. Judo alone may be enough, boxing'll teach you how to take a punch without puking, but God help you if you go to the ground with a BJJ guy one-on-one. As far as I've experienced, those dudes own the ground, period.

Take judo, back it up with some boxing. They're both cheap to train in and effective. BJJ is some incredible ****, but comes at a pretty high price ($150 to 200 a month around these here parts) and, I don't know -- man, you really gotta hope the dude you're rolling around with for forty-five minutes at a time washed his gi recently, that's all I gotta say.

[FictionPimp]

Learn to poop on demand. This is perfect cause who wants to be close to a guy who just pooped himself?

[Teh El Macho]

elnyka: Six months from now an overeager Krav Maga student is going to find your post and necro the thread to explain to everyone that Krava Maga is the perfect art for self defense because it has all the qualities you expound.

Get ready to be enlightened.

Oh Goodness gracious. I need to prepare myself for that horror movie :viking:

[Teh El Macho]

Learn to poop on demand. This is perfect cause who wants to be close to a guy who just pooped himself?

You can also aim your poop in your opponent's direction. That's what most animals do in the wild. :tongue6:

[babo78]

Honestly it boils down to which one is more affordable and has school hours you can attend.

In my opinion, Judo or JJ has negelible difference in results you want from training. It's diminishing return in my opinion for what you want unless you plan to put in 5+ hours a week and train. In that case, you will see pretty clear difference.

People will state, BJJ for ground! because you end up on ground most of fights. It's true and BJJ does focus more on ground (20 standup/80 ground?) than Judo but Judo does focus on groundwork as well (80 standup/20 ground).

Only thing I recommend is try to avoid wrestling style shoot and stick with Judo throws for self-defense. This is because most of places outside dojo doesn't have padded floor and chances are u will prolly drop ure knee hard and shoot to take him down as practiced & bust your knee.

[elipson]

It seems that some ppl are forgetting that Judo does have groundwork. Not to the point of BJJ, but I've rolled with Judo guys and most of them do just fine on the ground. The have good positioning and are hard to move, but have crappy submissions.

On the other hand, a lot of BJJ schools have HORRIBLE takedowns! I once asked my instructor if his teacher, Marcus Soares , 6th dan BJJ, ever taught throws. The answer? Maybe 4 times a year. I thought he was kidding; he wasn't. Look at how many schools start sparring from the knees all the time. I'm sure that'll really help your takedowns/defenses.

[elipson]

On a related note, one of the BB at my JJJ club made a guy **** himself with a hip-throw.

[Dagon Akujin]

You can also aim your poop in your opponent's direction. That's what most animals do in the wild. :tongue6:

Or in prison. :tongue7:

Dagon Akujin