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  1. Tom Kagan is offline
    Tom Kagan's Avatar

    Dark Overlord of the Bullshido Underworld

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    Posted On:
    4/05/2006 12:56pm

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     Style: Taai Si Ji Kung Fu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Planktime
    Hmmm.... Similar to the airlight frames S&W makes? Interesting, i would think you would loose some of the energy from the less massive material. I will have to look into this further it has my curiosity peaked now.

    PT

    Perhaps you do lose some energy from lighter material. However, we are talking about 2,100+ fps velocity from a 4.9 inch barrel (Five-seveN) and 2,300+ fps from 10 inch barrel (P90).

    The projectile is nose heavy - it, in essence, is engineered for superior tumbling characteristics once it pierces flesh without over penetration.

    The wound tract looks like this:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:574.jpg

    If you can believe adverts, the projectile will produce about the same wound profile even after penetrating metal/Kevlar, but won't exit an unarmored target even as close as 10m.

    If they engineer a controlled expansion projectile, that round would be pretty gruesome - considering it's a handgun with practically no recoil.
    Last edited by Tom Kagan; 4/05/2006 1:00pm at .
  2. Pandinha is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/05/2006 3:21pm

    supporting memberhall of famestaff
     Style: Muay Thai & BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I'm bringing my Five Seven to KC, if anyone is interested in firing it.

    P90's haven't come in yet, and i'm on the waiting list.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sifu Rudy Abel
    "Just what makes a pure grappler think he can survive with an experienced striker. Especially if that striker isn't following any particular rule set and is well aware of what the grapplers strategies are".
  3. Shuma-Gorath is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/05/2006 3:30pm

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     Style: BJJ - Homeland Security

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Kagan
    If they engineer a controlled expansion projectile, that round would be pretty gruesome - considering it's a handgun with practically no recoil.
    Did they already do this with blended-metal 9mm or was that all hype?
  4. Tom Kagan is offline
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    Dark Overlord of the Bullshido Underworld

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    Posted On:
    4/05/2006 4:07pm

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     Style: Taai Si Ji Kung Fu

    --
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shuma-Gorath
    Did they already do this with blended-metal 9mm or was that all hype?

    That's what I meant. But, 9x19mm velocity is more like 1,100+ fps. From what I understand, damage from hydrostatic shock - the supersonic shock wave of the projectile - is negligible at that velocity. (Duh Tom! Mach 1 is 1,132 fps at sea level.)


    (Okay, that does it! I'm going to do whatever it takes to get a pistol permit here in NYC. Anybody need a diamond courier? I'll do the job for free.)
  5. Plasma is online now
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    Posted On:
    4/05/2006 4:12pm

    supporting memberforum leaderstaff
     Style: 柔術

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Kagan

    (Okay, that does it! I'm going to do whatever it takes to get a pistol permit here in NYC. Anybody need a diamond courier? I'll do the job for free.)
    That probably the only way. Remember in liberal states, posessions is worth more then life. (I can carry a pistol to protect gold coins, but not to protect myself).
  6. Tom Kagan is offline
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    Dark Overlord of the Bullshido Underworld

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    Posted On:
    4/05/2006 4:17pm

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     Style: Taai Si Ji Kung Fu

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    Quote Originally Posted by KageKaze
    That probably the only way. Remember in liberal states, posessions is worth more then life. (I can carry a pistol to protect gold coins, but not to protect myself).

    Yeah, but life's pretty expensive as it is around here - not at all like how cheap a life is in the middle of fucking nowhere. :smile:
  7. Planktime is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/06/2006 1:09pm


     Style: Arnis, judo, Taichi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Kagan
    Perhaps you do lose some energy from lighter material. However, we are talking about 2,100+ fps velocity from a 4.9 inch barrel (Five-seveN) and 2,300+ fps from 10 inch barrel (P90).

    The projectile is nose heavy - it, in essence, is engineered for superior tumbling characteristics once it pierces flesh without over penetration.

    The wound tract looks like this:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:574.jpg

    If you can believe adverts, the projectile will produce about the same wound profile even after penetrating metal/Kevlar, but won't exit an unarmored target even as close as 10m.

    If they engineer a controlled expansion projectile, that round would be pretty gruesome - considering it's a handgun with practically no recoil.
    So effectively they have engineered a round to do what the original 5.56 rounds did in vietnam. That should hit like a ton of bricks. I am still not sure about the 57 being a very good reound for home defense due to the high cost of ammo. If it costs a bunch to shoot you are less likely to spend the time really getting familiar with it to be effective. Practice > firepower.

    Anthony how much does a box of 5.7 cost? I have found it very expensive $25+ a box! That is when I have found it. I would be very reluctant to purchase a gun fo 800 the ammo at 25 a box if i was only useing it for self defense. you can buy a 45acp here in colorado for 450ish boxes of ammo range from $10-19. A home defender shotgun runs 250ish and shells cost $15 a box.

    Somthing else to consider

    PT
  8. Pandinha is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/06/2006 1:33pm

    supporting memberhall of famestaff
     Style: Muay Thai & BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Planktime
    So effectively they have engineered a round to do what the original 5.56 rounds did in vietnam. That should hit like a ton of bricks. I am still not sure about the 57 being a very good reound for home defense due to the high cost of ammo. If it costs a bunch to shoot you are less likely to spend the time really getting familiar with it to be effective. Practice > firepower.

    Anthony how much does a box of 5.7 cost? I have found it very expensive $25+ a box! That is when I have found it. I would be very reluctant to purchase a gun fo 800 the ammo at 25 a box if i was only useing it for self defense. you can buy a 45acp here in colorado for 450ish boxes of ammo range from $10-19. A home defender shotgun runs 250ish and shells cost $15 a box.

    Somthing else to consider

    PT
    That's about right, 25 bucks for a box of 50. Or, .50 cents per round. I've fired a few hudred dollars worth of ammo easy. This is also for the ss196 ammo, which isn't the 2200fps armor piercing roundi. Though at 1800fps plus, still a viable round that is a hollow point.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sifu Rudy Abel
    "Just what makes a pure grappler think he can survive with an experienced striker. Especially if that striker isn't following any particular rule set and is well aware of what the grapplers strategies are".
  9. Planktime is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/06/2006 3:05pm


     Style: Arnis, judo, Taichi

    --
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    pest control

    Quote Originally Posted by Anthony
    That's about right, 25 bucks for a box of 50. Or, .50 cents per round. I've fired a few hudred dollars worth of ammo easy. This is also for the ss196 ammo, which isn't the 2200fps armor piercing roundi. Though at 1800fps plus, still a viable round that is a hollow point.
    Ouch! do you reload at all to cover some of that expence? If so how available are the components readily available. I ask because i would be interested in getting one of these beuties for evaporateing prarie dogs.

    PT
  10. Pandinha is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/06/2006 4:46pm

    supporting memberhall of famestaff
     Style: Muay Thai & BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Planktime
    Ouch! do you reload at all to cover some of that expence? If so how available are the components readily available. I ask because i would be interested in getting one of these beuties for evaporateing prarie dogs.

    PT
    PT,

    Sorry bro, I don't reload, so no info on that.

    I feel sorry for the prarie dogs if you're gonna use this, but then again, they are rodents. :)
    Quote Originally Posted by Sifu Rudy Abel
    "Just what makes a pure grappler think he can survive with an experienced striker. Especially if that striker isn't following any particular rule set and is well aware of what the grapplers strategies are".
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