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  1. SFGOON is offline
    SFGOON's Avatar

    and humble, too!

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    Posted On:
    4/03/2006 9:05am


     Style: Systema, BJJ, Arrestling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I hadn't considered hiding away when reccomending against a pistol, and a shotgun would be an excellent choice for "sheltering" yourself. If you're crouched down in a corner and firing up into the BGs in a one story house or on the top story, overpenetration risks are reduced.

    If you want to move through your own house and "clear" it (not something I would reccomend, very difficult,) a pistol would be better.

    Phrost - you can't equate P-90 data to Five-seveN data. The barrel length has a huge impact on muzzle velocity with a caliber that small and you know it.
  2. Planktime is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/03/2006 9:19am


     Style: Arnis, judo, Taichi

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by KageKaze
    Shotgun with Rock Salt. Won't go through walls, won't kill, but it will knock out fucking superman.
    Please see my signature.... also having been shot with rock salt at about 30 yds (ouch) it demoralize you pretty good, but it could lead to a lawsuit here in CO. The law states the use of deadly force is acceptable, so what has happened is those who use this type of defence get sued. If you tazer the fucker you can still get sued.

    Wait were the hell is my signature.....damnit.
  3. SFGOON is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/03/2006 9:43am


     Style: Systema, BJJ, Arrestling

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Yarrrr - dead men file no lawsuits yarrrrr...
  4. Planktime is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/03/2006 9:50am


     Style: Arnis, judo, Taichi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    shoot first, shoot second, shoot a few more times..

    Quote Originally Posted by SFGOON
    Yarrrr - dead men file no lawsuits yarrrrr...
    No they dont. However wrongful death is on the rise in other states. CO's make my day law protects us from some of it. I think it was one of the first in the nation to have a shoot first ask questions later law.

    PT
  5. Tom Kagan is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/03/2006 11:16am

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     Style: Taai Si Ji Kung Fu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by SFGOON
    Phrost - you can't equate P-90 data to Five-seveN data. The barrel length has a huge impact on muzzle velocity with a caliber that small and you know it.
    Regardless, the Five Seven is advertised to be able to "penetrate standard PAGST vest at 300 meters and standard CRISAT (kevlar + titanium) vest at 100 meters" (probably the ss190 load). With next to no recoil, you probably have a pretty good chance of hitting your target at those distances, too. (Besides, who's house is bigger than 25 yards, anyway? :smile:)



    Personally, if the "home defense" paranoia ever got to me, I'd reckon I'd cobble together a few of these setups around the perimeter of my home:

    http://www.thesentrygun.com

    Three or four should be sufficient. :smile:

    Not only is it non-lethal (current incarnation), but it could allow me to sleep through most all scenarios and, as an added bonus, keep the neighbor's pets out of the garden.


    Getting hands on an FN F2000 with a shotgun attachment would be awesome. It's compact and has mucho firepower. (Now, with the grenade launcher attachment, that would be a bit much. LOL)
    Last edited by Tom Kagan; 4/03/2006 11:21am at .
  6. SFGOON is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/03/2006 12:13pm


     Style: Systema, BJJ, Arrestling

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Kagan
    Regardless, the Five Seven is advertised to be able to "penetrate standard PAGST vest at 300 meters and standard CRISAT (kevlar + titanium) vest at 100 meters" (probably the ss190 load). With next to no recoil, you probably have a pretty good chance of hitting your target at those distances, too. (Besides, who's house is bigger than 25 yards, anyway? :smile:)
    No matter what the belgians say, a 5.7 is still a .25 - the penetration is great but where's the stopping power?
  7. Tom Kagan is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/03/2006 12:43pm

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     Style: Taai Si Ji Kung Fu

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by SFGOON
    No matter what the belgians say, a 5.7 is still a .25 - the penetration is great but where's the stopping power?

    Meh. Hydrostatic shock: At a the Five Seven's velocity, hitting a mid sized varmint would cause the furry critter to explode.

    I understand your point with FMJ rounds, though.

    (Damn, it's times like this when living in NYC sucks.)
  8. ojgsxr6 is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/03/2006 1:18pm

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     Style: Boxing/BJJudo/Crossfit

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Kagan
    (Damn, it's times like this when living in NYC sucks.)
    BB Guns are still legal though, right?
  9. SFGOON is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/03/2006 1:21pm


     Style: Systema, BJJ, Arrestling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Hydrostatic shock from a pistol? It's the surface area to mass ratio that makes the round a decent penetrator, and the funny part is that it will loose a lot of velocity cutting through all those levels of kevlar. The P-90 might have a hydrostatic effect but a Five-seveN? I'm just not buying it.
  10. Planktime is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/03/2006 1:30pm


     Style: Arnis, judo, Taichi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by SFGOON
    Hydrostatic shock from a pistol? It's the surface area to mass ratio that makes the round a decent penetrator, and the funny part is that it will loose a lot of velocity cutting through all those levels of kevlar. The P-90 might have a hydrostatic effect but a Five-seveN? I'm just not buying it.
    I am inclined to agree. I think if you are looking to penitrate armor just step up to the assult rifle class. Most civilian/Law enforcement armor is not resistant to an AR/AK. Or even more common a .308 hunting rifle. If you are talking home defence there is no need for anything more that a .38 if you can shoot well. Or a 45 acp if you want to kill you victem. Hydrostatic shock is not going make that much of a difference if you can event get a hand gun to cause it. The 57 is certainly sexy and I would own one, but it would not be my choice for home defence. I have a .357 and a 870 express dressed up so it is scary for that.

    SFG would you attempt to clear you house if you thought somone was in it? Just curious, I would and have.

    PT
    Last edited by Planktime; 4/03/2006 1:46pm at .
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