Well Meaning Bullshido???

**Spezza** · Posted On: 3/30/2006 9:56pm

Can there be such a thing as "misguided" though not "malicious" Bullshido...?

Take for example a Danzan Ryu jujitsu school I used to study at.

It was at a YMCA and the instructor didn't make a penny for teaching, nor was he on a huge ego trip. He was a nice man who liked to help people and who had been practicing/teaching the art for about 35 years or so. The school was a member of 3 of the most well respected Danzan Ryu organizations.

I left after a few years for the "usual" reasons people leave TMAs: too much kata, no sparring or randori, a lot of geeky Samurai talk, etc... Basically, it was a waste of time IF you want any semblence of real-world skill.

a few years after I left, I ran into a old buddy who was still at the school. He had just gotten his Shodan. He also told me that "The Professor" was just given his 10th Degree Black Belt.

I though, "but the guy practices 2x a week!" He is nice and all, but 10th degree black belts are for people who train most everyday for 50 years. I asked my friend:" What, an 8th degree black belt just wouldn't do?" He was a little put-off by my comment.

But that is my question: Is it Bullshido when someone such as this man is given such an exorbitantly high rank, though it is by a "legit" organization? Keep in mind the man HAS trained a long time and is NOT trying to "scam" anyone.

Is it just that the organization has low standards?

What do you guys think...?

**Jebuyaga** · Posted On: 3/30/2006 10:09pm

Originally Posted by Spezza

Can there be such a thing as "misguided" though not "malicious" Bullshido...?

Certainly. It doesen't have to be a deliberate scam to be called bullshido. As far as I'm concerned, if it claims to be combat effective -- outright or implicated -- but isn't, then it's bullshido, doesen't matter if it's deliberate or just delusional thought.

**Shu2jack** · Posted On: 3/30/2006 10:17pm

It is not bullshido to meet the requirements an organization for a rank and receive said rank. Misrepresenting what you are teaching, your abilities, etc. is bullshido.

That said, some organizations have varying levels of standards. As long as it is clear how and and why he earned the rank and what the rank actually is, it should be fine.

**It is Fake** · Posted On: 3/30/2006 10:28pm

Originally Posted by Spezza

I though, "but the guy practices 2x a week!" He is nice and all, but 10th degree black belts are for people who train most everyday for 50 years. I asked my friend:" What, an 8th degree black belt just wouldn't do?" He was a little put-off by my comment.
?

You also have to take into account his ability. I know of someone who was dying of cancer that was awarded his next higher rank. He didn't earn the rank physically but, I would argue, his time and effort was desreving.

2x a week maybe all he can do, It may not necessarily be bullshido.

**CanucKyokushin** · Posted On: 3/30/2006 10:44pm

Originally Posted by Spezza

Can there be such a thing as "misguided" though not "malicious" Bullshido...?

Take for example a Danzan Ryu jujitsu school I used to study at.

It was at a YMCA and the instructor didn't make a penny for teaching, nor was he on a huge ego trip. He was a nice man who liked to help people and who had been practicing/teaching the art for about 35 years or so. The school was a member of 3 of the most well respected Danzan Ryu organizations.

I left after a few years for the "usual" reasons people leave TMAs: too much kata, no sparring or randori, a lot of geeky Samurai talk, etc... Basically, it was a waste of time IF you want any semblence of real-world skill.

a few years after I left, I ran into a old buddy who was still at the school. He had just gotten his Shodan. He also told me that "The Professor" was just given his 10th Degree Black Belt.
Let me guess.He broke away to form his own DanZan Ryu style and later promoted himself to 10th.
I though, "but the guy practices 2x a week!" He is nice and all, but 10th degree black belts are for people who train most everyday for 50 years. I asked my friend:" What, an 8th degree black belt just wouldn't do?" He was a little put-off by my comment.

But that is my question: Is it Bullshido when someone such as this man is given such an exorbitantly high rank, though it is by a "legit" organization? Keep in mind the man HAS trained a long time and is NOT trying to "scam" anyone.

Is it just that the organization has low standards?

What do you guys think...?

Let me guess. He broke away to form his own DanZan Ryu style and later promoted himself to 10th.

Let me tell you something about this Master I know. Know I'm not gonna get into a style vs. style debate. But let’s just compare shall we.

The man I'm speaking of is Raynald Lamarre.Master Lamarre did a lot of Kick-boxing and boxing bouts in Quebec on top of the Karate tournaments that he competed in the '80's.

I think he may have even competed in New-York once in a blue moon in that Boxing bouts.I'm not sure. A quick Google check you can probably find his old rankings. On top of that he ran a Karate school with his wife and brother which would turn-out to be most successful In fact.

Now he started Karate in the mid-70's and only recently he got his 5th Dan.

This guy trained for 30 years and only achieved 5th Dan.

So in closing. You may respect the man, even admire him. But he's full of ****. That style is even fuller of **** and his rank is not to be taken seriously.

**TehDeadlyDimMak** · Posted On: 3/30/2006 10:58pm

what canuckkyokushin said.

**Spezza** · Posted On: 3/30/2006 11:50pm

Good answers, thank you.

Canukkyushin,

Actually... no; he has never started an organization or association, though I know one of his students has. That's partly WHY I asked about him. He is not a "fraudulent" type person. Extremely over-ranked? IMO, yes.

If he had started an organization, that would CLEARLY be Bullshido, but he didn't. The rank was given to him.

And yes Danzan Ruy Jujitsu is a complete and total waste of time. I spent about 4 years in it, saw people from ALL the organizations. Some better, some worse. Most all terrible at applying anything other than a demo. Horrible or non-existant randori, no newaza (grappling) and almost no strikes. Good massage program though (through the AJJF)

IsitFake??

Also, even if someone can only train 2x a week --that's fine. But do they really deserve a 10th Dan??? Compared to what say, Judo 10th dans have accomplished in their art, I think it's an absurd rank.

**PirateJon** · Posted On: 3/31/2006 12:18am

Well meaning or not, the end result is the same - you're learning a "fighting" art and can't fight.

I guess you can say he's not as contemptable as a full on BS master.

**It is Fake** · Posted On: 3/31/2006 12:20am

Originally Posted by Spezza

IsitFake??

Also, even if someone can only train 2x a week --that's fine. But do they really deserve a 10th Dan??? Compared to what say, Judo 10th dans have accomplished in their art, I think it's an absurd rank.

So, you observed his training regime since he started?

What has he accomplished that you saw or observed in his entire time in the system?

Yes, 10th Degree tends to be hyper-inflated even, in some Judo circles.

You asked if it was Bullshido I said it all depends on the situation. Canuck is using an extreme example. Although I agree with his example, it doesn't necessarily apply to your situation.

You are giving facts out in bits in pieces. Give his name and school that is the only way to say yes he is BS.