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  1. VikingPower is offline
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    Yes Koto got his name changed, quit asking...

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    Posted On:
    4/13/2006 7:37pm

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     Style: Kyokushin Karate

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Hitman
    Actually if you would look around the website at the FAQ's and the free Crossfit journals, most people do Crossfit AND other things. Everyone from Olympic Skiers to MMA types to Special Operations types do Crossfit as their "conditioning" in addition to all those activities they do to enhance their chosen endeavors.
    So you think by doing a dozen set of burpees it'll help you more for fighting than several rounds of shadowboxing and bagwork?

    Don't get me wrong, I agree that it's good to be generally fit and strong, but especially endurance-wise you need to train for what you're doing. Just because a guy can do 500 pushups and squats doesn't mean he's going to be able to swim a mile any faster than a guy who just swims all the time.
  2. pbradish is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/13/2006 8:29pm


     Style: Mixed Martial Arts

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    :) lol.

    Bodyweight stuff is not a bad thing. I mix some of it into every lifting day.

    We also use it every MMA training session.
  3. War Wizard is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/13/2006 9:04pm


     Style: Judo - Boxing

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Koto_Ryu
    So you think by doing a dozen set of burpees it'll help you more for fighting than several rounds of shadowboxing and bagwork?

    Don't get me wrong, I agree that it's good to be generally fit and strong, but especially endurance-wise you need to train for what you're doing. Just because a guy can do 500 pushups and squats doesn't mean he's going to be able to swim a mile any faster than a guy who just swims all the time.
    No, do the dozen sets of burpees THEN do shadowboxing and bagwork. Actually John Hackleman of The Pit (where Chuck Liddell trains at) says much the same thing in Crossfit Journal #44.
    "Keep a sharp knife, shiny boots and be on time."
  4. VikingPower is offline
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    Yes Koto got his name changed, quit asking...

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    Posted On:
    4/13/2006 10:45pm

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     Style: Kyokushin Karate

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Hitman
    No, do the dozen sets of burpees THEN do shadowboxing and bagwork. Actually John Hackleman of The Pit (where Chuck Liddell trains at) says much the same thing in Crossfit Journal #44.
    Why tire yourself out though before you start doing the technical stuff? Bodyweight stuff for after.

    Crossfit's on the right path but it's not the be-all end-all of fitness, mostly because they have to make it too generalized to fit everyone. It's like a horoscope, it makes sense if you convince yourself it does, but then again it's supposed to do the same for everyone. Two guys I used to train with were big Crossfitters, but they still spewed when I took them for a training session. Because it's so general, your gains overall will be minimal rather than if you do a specialization. For general athleticism, it's awesome. For fight training, you can use some of the ideas but I wouldn't take the whole package.
  5. Meager is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/13/2006 11:00pm


     Style: BJJ & MT

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Hitman
    No, do the dozen sets of burpees THEN do shadowboxing and bagwork. Actually John Hackleman of The Pit (where Chuck Liddell trains at) says much the same thing in Crossfit Journal #44.
    Chuck Liddell's biggest problem has always been his conditioning, so I'm not sure citing his trainer is the greatest endorsement in the world.
  6. VikingPower is offline
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    Yes Koto got his name changed, quit asking...

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    Posted On:
    4/13/2006 11:04pm

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     Style: Kyokushin Karate

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Meager
    Chuck Liddell's biggest problem has always been his conditioning, so I'm not sure citing his trainer is the greatest endorsement in the world.
    <img src="http://www.svtgalleries.net/gallery/data/500/382oh_snap.jpg">

    In all honesty, it's awesome for weekend warriors and maybe the average MAist, but who really wants to be average?
  7. Cullion is offline
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    Everybody was Kung Fu fighting

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    Posted On:
    4/14/2006 5:10am

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     Style: Tai Chi

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    The thing about bodyweight exercises for strength is that there is an upper limit on the amount of resistance you have to work with. If you're doing bodyweight exercise as part of a general fitness programme to get back into shape, there's probably a good chance you will be losing weight as time goes on, thus giving yourself less resistance to work with rather than progressively more (as most strength training programmes seem to require).

    With weights, you know exactly how much resistance you're working against, and you always have the option of increasing the resistance when a certain number of reps starts to feel easy, by just adding more weight.

    Whether or not the extra strength you can get from weights is worth the time, or is counterproductive, for combat sports is another subject.
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  8. Hannibal is offline

    Grandmaster Sensei of Village Idiocy

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    Posted On:
    4/14/2006 5:14am

    Join us... or die
     Style: Kyokushin and Judo.

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Koto_Ryu
    Why tire yourself out though before you start doing the technical stuff? Bodyweight stuff for after.

    Crossfit's on the right path but it's not the be-all end-all of fitness, mostly because they have to make it too generalized to fit everyone. It's like a horoscope, it makes sense if you convince yourself it does, but then again it's supposed to do the same for everyone. Two guys I used to train with were big Crossfitters, but they still spewed when I took them for a training session. Because it's so general, your gains overall will be minimal rather than if you do a specialization. For general athleticism, it's awesome. For fight training, you can use some of the ideas but I wouldn't take the whole package.

    This makes alot of sense.

    But to tell the truth ever since I've mixed bodyweight exercises with my martial arts training, my fighting stamina has taken a big leap forward.

    The drill mentioned earlier with burpees is something we do in Kyokushin. We do:

    Burpees - 10.
    Padwork - 2 minute flat out

    Rest - 1 minute

    Burpees- 10
    Padwork - 2minute flat out

    Repeat process

    This drill has worked wonders for me. But again I think it somes back to specialisation. You body is exerise specific in what it adapts to. Supplementry training like weights or running or swimming is fine but it is just that, supplementry training. It should NEVER replace martial arts training.

    If your training to get on the mat and fight for 3 X 3 minute rounds, then that is what you should be doing.
    Hannibal: The sworn enemy of dishonest politicians, source of entertainment on Bullshido and newly appointed Office Linebacker. Terry Tait ain't got **** on me !!!!
  9. War Wizard is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/14/2006 2:51pm


     Style: Judo - Boxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I feel I should also point that the Workout of the Day is NOT the only thing going on in Crossfit. Crossfit is analogous to say, Jeet Kune Do, where it is a philosophy rather than an actual system. THere have been several articles about adapting Crossfit to meet the demands of your particular activity. If you want an idea of what I'm talking about go pick up Navy SEAL physical fitness by Stew Smith. It's not a book with Crossfit written across the cover, but look inside and you'll see the exact same principles in play (intensity, variability, and functionality). It applies the Crossfit principles to a program for a specific activity (BUD/S).
    "Keep a sharp knife, shiny boots and be on time."
  10. daGorilla is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/14/2006 4:38pm


     Style: Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Cullion
    The thing about bodyweight exercises for strength is that there is an upper limit on the amount of resistance you have to work with. If you're doing bodyweight exercise as part of a general fitness programme to get back into shape, there's probably a good chance you will be losing weight as time goes on, thus giving yourself less resistance to work with rather than progressively more (as most strength training programs seem to require).

    With weights, you know exactly how much resistance you're working against, and you always have the option of increasing the resistance when a certain number of reps starts to feel easy, by just adding more weight.

    Whether or not the extra strength you can get from weights is worth the time, or is counterproductive, for combat sports is another subject.
    Like Koto says, Crossfit is not the be-all to fitness. There are plenty of good methods out there. I would say, however, that Crossfit is definitely superior to most of the crap peddled courtesy of popular fitness mags and many/most of your local personal trainers at big chain gyms. Part of what makes Crossfit so cool is that it can be easily modified and mixed with virtually anything.

    A recent issue of the Crossfit Journal published the results of a scientific study done with the Canadian military (insert Canuck jokes here). The short of it was this: Group A of soldiers went through standard Canadian military training, Group B of soldiers did Crossfit. Group B beat Group A in every single fitness test (run times, vertical jumps, pushups, pull ups, etc.), and spent *less time* working out to achieve those results.

    As for Body Weight conditioning, Cullion is only partially correct.

    Gymnastics strength exercises use body weight as the workload, but *reduce leverage* as you work towards the more advanced postures/movements. You don't increase the load, but you reduce your leverage to make the same load harder to move/lift.

    One example of a very strong gymnast (who did gymnastics but no weight training) I remember was a guy that deadlifted 4X his body weight right out of the gate (first attempt) -- and he'd apparently never deadlifted before.

    BTW -- I'm not a body weight training nut, either. I just thought this point was worth bringing up. I know I sound like a Crossfit Nutrider... I kinda am, but I'm not down on other systems either (5X5, Dinosaur Training -- there's lots of good ones).

    -daGorilla
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