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  1. Emevas is offline
    Emevas's Avatar

    Dysfunctionally Strong

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    Minot AFB, ND
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    6,788

    Posted On:
    7/09/2007 10:00pm

    supporting member
     Style: Boxing/Wrestling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Who brought up Pavel?
    "Emevas,
    You're a scrapper, I like that."-Ronin69
  2. spirez is offline

    Registered Member

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    Sep 2006
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    UK
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    Posted On:
    7/10/2007 1:27pm


     Style: BJJ/no-gi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Here's a link to that Sherk clip:

    http://www.dailymotion.com/relevance...ess-sean-sherk

    You have to wait til around 3 mins for the training.
  3. tyciol is offline

    Registered Member

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    Feb 2005
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    Ontario, Canada
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    225

    Posted On:
    8/08/2007 8:31am


     Style: Tae Kwon-Do, Fencing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    The OP said 'Furey started it and Pavel picked it up'. Fact is, there have been BW advocates forever, Furey's just the more popular one of recent. You could say Atlas or some other dude started it. It's just the most recent revolution.

    But Pavel puts a lot more thought into his writing, and he doesn't subsist on BS "just add hundreds of reps and you'll become super strong!" like Furey does. He tells how to gradually increase difficulty through leveredge, and supports lifting weights.
  4. Wizard Whateley is offline

    Featherweight

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    Aug 2007
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    11

    Posted On:
    8/10/2007 4:37pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Generic Hoplology

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by damucha
    What I suspect is that allot of this guys actually lift weight.
    It's for the sake of sales they claim that they don't.
    It's you would believe that a Bowflex models, that you see on infomercials. used only Bowflex to get into shape.
    Hah! Like Charles Atlas! During the famous "muscle binding" trial, Bob Hoffman brought forth evidence that Atlas did, indeed, use weights himself.
  5. Wizard Whateley is offline

    Featherweight

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    Aug 2007
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    Posted On:
    8/10/2007 4:59pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Generic Hoplology

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Blooming lotus
    ... and what about these men who caan lift all that weight and yet can't do 50 pushups in a row?? let alone a couple of sets ... how do you make that out as effective muscle??
    Normally, it's a matter of physics (inverse square law) and the size of the athlete. Just because a 120lbs. gymnast can do 150 pushups and a 340lbs. strongman can't, hardly means it's not "effective" that the strongman can quickly scoot a 100 feet with farmer's walk implements in either hand, each of which weigh over twice the gymnast's bodyweight. Paul Anderson, despite holding the all time world record at the time, never even snatched bodyweight in competition, but I don't think anyone would call it useless being able to toss nearly 400lbs. over your head. A 500lbs. tiger can't dart up a tree the way a 140lbs. leopard can, but the only thing at all standing in the way of the tiger having the leopard for lunch is whether it can catch it.
  6. Wizard Whateley is offline

    Featherweight

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    Aug 2007
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    Posted On:
    8/10/2007 9:33pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Generic Hoplology

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by spirez
    Why not use body builders as an example? I didn't state anywhere in my post that they are the strongest guys in the world but at the end of the day they have to overload their muscles to adapt and gain size, which inevitably means progressively lifting more weight.
    Why? Because pro bodybuilders are juiced to the absolute gills. The importance of drugs in pro-BB passed that of excercise many, many, years ago. They don't really have to do much of anything but afford their drug bills and be willing to throw away their long term health. Nothing they do has any real relevence for a natural strength trainer. Increasing natural hormone recruitment by way of excercise is the foremost issue for a drug-free trainer. It's a complete non-issue for a pro-BB stacking a dozen or more steroids, HGH, insulin, and who the hell even knows what else.
  7. Jim_Jude is offline
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    Shime Waza Test Dummy

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    SoCal
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    Posted On:
    8/11/2007 6:25am

    Join us... or die
     Style: StrikeyGrappling & WW2-fu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Emevas
    Essentially, but at that point I typically just call it CNS/motor unit efficiency or as the Ruskies call it "skill strength".

    "Functional strength" as a term has been promoted by Men's Health and 24 hour fitness as the new wave of training, putting people on swiss balls and balance boards while doing 1/8 squats with a dumbbell in the rectum. Or by Matt Furrey as a way to swindle people with exercise secrets passed onto him by a dead guy =P
    I'm enjoying the thread, but have some respect, man. The "dead guy" that you're so flippantly referring to died just the other day. He was Karl Gotch, a pro wrestler & catch wrestler who was not a fan of weights but a huge BW advocate...
    http://www.bullshido.net/forums/showthread.php?t=25848
    ... & here's a decent page from Wiki:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karl_Gotch
    & he would have kicked your ass even when he was in his 60's.
    The primary part of his p.t. was not called "Combat Conditioning" but is actually Vyayam, a very effective calisthenic form of Yoga, used by great Indian wrestlers such as Gama or the Bux brothers... all of whom are dead but would have easily kicked your ass. You can read about them in the "Lion of the Punjab 1-4" series here: http://ejmas.com/jalt/jaltframe.htm
    The Bux brothers easily handled guys that lifted weights all the time and that were huge.

    This guy, Imam Bux...

    http://ejmas.com/jalt/punjab/ImamBux.jpg

    ... beat this guy, John Lemm, easily...

    http://ejmas.com/jalt/tani/JohnLemm.jpg
    The Bux brothers did basically the same exercises as those that Karl was an advocate of, short of maybe some log dragging or club swinging.


    So show some friggin' respect.
  8. Hanniballistic is offline
    Hanniballistic's Avatar

    By the Hoary Hand of Hoggoth.....

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    Posted On:
    8/11/2007 7:16am


     Style: JKD & Mok'bara

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Check the dates before you get too much sand in your vagina - Gotch was alive when this was posted.

    The "dead guy" was teh fcat that Furey claimed at one point to channel the ghosts of wrestlers of yore...no I am not making it up
  9. Teh El Macho is offline
    Teh El Macho's Avatar

    Senior Member

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    Porcupine/Hollywood, FL & Parmistan via Elbonia
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    Posted On:
    8/11/2007 10:34am

    supporting member
     Style: creonte on hiatus

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Karl Gotch was very much into bodyweight exercises, but he never (AFAIK) advocated bodyweight exercises only. We have one clip here in Iranian Club Swing thread of him using a gada for training.
    Read this for flexibility and injury prevention, this, this and this for supplementation, this on grip conditioning, and this on staph. New: On strenght standards, relationships and structural balance. Shoulder problems? Read this.

    My crapuous vlog and my blog of training, stuff and crap. NEW: Me, Mrs. Macho and our newborn baby.

    New To Weight Training? Get the StrongLifts 5x5 program and Rippetoe's "Starting Strength, 2nd Ed". Wanna build muscle/gain weight? Check this article. My review on Tactical Nutrition here.

    t-nation - Dissecting the deadlift. Anatomy and Muscle Balancing Videos.

    The street argument is retarded. BJJ is so much overkill for the street that its ridiculous. Unless you're the idiot that picks a fight with the high school wrestling team, barring knife or gun play, the opponent shouldn't make it past double leg + ground and pound - Osiris
  10. spirez is offline

    Registered Member

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    Posted On:
    8/11/2007 12:37pm


     Style: BJJ/no-gi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Wizard Whateley
    Why? Because pro bodybuilders are juiced to the absolute gills. The importance of drugs in pro-BB passed that of excercise many, many, years ago. They don't really have to do much of anything but afford their drug bills and be willing to throw away their long term health. Nothing they do has any real relevence for a natural strength trainer. Increasing natural hormone recruitment by way of excercise is the foremost issue for a drug-free trainer. It's a complete non-issue for a pro-BB stacking a dozen or more steroids, HGH, insulin, and who the hell even knows what else.
    So you are saying that steroids will instantly turn you into Arnie? You are clueless
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