9mm vs. 9mm Hollow Point

***Cassius*** · Posted On: 3/28/2006 4:43pm

Originally Posted by Don Gwinn

SIG-Sauer P220 4 teh w1n.

Warning: The following is a series of questions by a gun neophyte:

I've been told that SIG-Sauer makes EXTREMELY nice handguns, but that they are hard to get ahold of. Is this true? If it is, why?

Okay, well I guess it was just two questions.

**Nid** · Posted On: 3/28/2006 5:39pm

Sigs are certainly not hard to find.

***Cassius*** · Posted On: 3/28/2006 5:45pm

Originally Posted by Kein Haar

Sigs are certainly not hard to find.

Well, that's what I get for listening to some random guy at the local MEPS. Thanks for answering.

**Hawkeye** · Posted On: 3/28/2006 6:40pm

Originally Posted by Garbanzo Bean

I've been told that SIG-Sauer makes EXTREMELY nice handguns

Sig makes awesome handguns but I do not like the stock sights on most. The 220 is a classic handgun.

They make an awesome fucking rifle too:

**Yrkoon9** · Posted On: 3/28/2006 7:25pm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_pol...in_Switzerland

Interesting article for those that like the 550. I think that one above is a 551 or 552 though.

**Don Gwinn** · Posted On: 3/28/2006 7:46pm

The P220 is a fine weapon. It is accurate, reliable, and fits my hand beautifully. It'll feed just about anything. And I like the sights, at least on my "old" model. I hate three-dot sights. The post and dot SIG puts on from the factory works a lot better for me.

Now, all that said, it's got its share of problems:

1. The older models especially rust if you look at them wrong. The bluing on them is pretty thin stuff. I've been told this is a result of the environmental regulations in Austria. The newer ones carry much better protected, and now you can get one made entirely of stainless steel (P220S.)

2. The older models were known to crack right at the disassembly lever on the aluminum frame at high round counts, though mine shows no signs.

3. The DA/SA trigger takes some getting used to; certainly a single action like a 1911 would be easier to learn to shoot well, although then you'd have to manipulate a safety. Everything's a tradeoff.

4. The bore axis is kinda high; it flips more than some other full size guns in the same caliber.

**SFGOON** · Posted On: 3/28/2006 9:51pm

Originally Posted by Garbanzo Bean

Well, that's what I get for listening to some random guy at the local MEPS. Thanks for answering.

Welcome to the military young recruit! I would like to present you with the first two rules of service, regardless of branch! They are;

1. Don't believe anything another recruit tells you at the MEPS.

2. See rule #1.

Thank you for your service, and good luck in your career with the finest armed forces in the world.

edit: rule #3, officers can't spell

**Don Gwinn** · Posted On: 3/30/2006 8:12pm

Lots of crazy gun myths go around the military.

1. .50 cal can't be used against personnel as per Geneva Convention.
We aren't signed to that convention, and if this were true, .50 caliber machine guns also could not be used against personnel.

2. .45 acp spins people around, knocks men flat, etc.
Just not true.

3. The M1 carbine sucked because it was underpowered compared to the mighty .45 M3 "grease gun."
Nope. .30 carbine is far more powerful than .45 acp. If you don't believe it, find a Freedom Arms BFR revolver in .30 Carbine and fire it, then fire a big heavy .45 of a similar size and weight. You'll feel the difference. Anything the .30 carbine would fail at, the .45 would fail at more spectacularly.

4. The early M16's in Vietnam were stamped "Mattel" because they made the plastic stocks.
Funny, but no. :)

5. Just yesterday, I read "Jarhead" by Anthony Swofford. Fascinating, but when he's describing the M16, he repeats the "numerous stories" of people being shot in the head and the 5.56 projectile tumbling all over until it exits through the knee or the foot.
Come on, folks. Can't happen.

6. The 5.56/.223 round tumbles in flight. How would you hit anything with it if it were tumbling and keyholing in the air? Thinking it through would tell you this is impossible.

**SFGOON** · Posted On: 3/31/2006 12:10am

The 223 might not tumble through the air, but it does lose a lot of it's best ballistic traits very quickly (within 50m,) and it is a tumbler round and has made some spectacular performances in the field of "where it went in and where the surgeon found it," but nothing as dramatic as what is described in jarhead.

**fubar** · Posted On: 4/05/2006 1:44pm

I have the newer P220 , with the light rail underneath. And It's stainless. So it doesn't have the weakness issues mentioned above. But it's fucking heavy. I carry the 9mm 228 , it's a smaller, lighter 13 shot with the same operation as the 220. The stainless 45 lives under the pillow or in the range bag.

I prefer the "pumpkin on a post" sights as well.

As for availability , here in the Peoples Republic of Mass , most Sigs for sale here are used only. At least 220's , the 226 is sold new , it's confusing as hell because the laws have no basis in rational thought.

I live about an hour away from SigArms Academy , haven't visited yet , but if I suddenly have too much money I plan to attend some of their advanced classes.