9mm vs. 9mm Hollow Point

***Plasma*** · Posted On: 3/25/2006 1:07pm

So I can currently looking at some 9mm Smith and Wesson (http://www.hellinahandbasket.net/archives/001565.html)

Now I understand a 9mm is a super sonic round with little stopping power. However, I will looking around a found that the recommended use of standard 9mm is target practice, where the 9mm Hollow Point is for Personal Protection.

Now does that mean the hollowpoints have more stopping power? All I know is that the Hollowpoints expand on impact. What does that do?

**Mr. Mantis** · Posted On: 3/25/2006 1:17pm

Originally Posted by KageKaze

All I know is that the Hollowpoints expand on impact. What does that do?

They break apart and cause more tissue damage.

***Plasma*** · Posted On: 3/25/2006 1:21pm

Originally Posted by Mr_Mantis

They break apart and cause more tissue damage.

Makes sense.

I assume that makes a 9mm less likely to exit the body, giving it more stopping power.

**Mr. Mantis** · Posted On: 3/25/2006 1:25pm

Originally Posted by KageKaze

Makes sense.

I assume that makes a 9mm less likely to exit the body, giving it more stopping power.

I don't know if it's fair to make that assumption.

There are variables at stake that I am unsure of without researching the subject.

***JohnnyCache*** · Posted On: 3/25/2006 1:51pm

They also spread for a larger wound profile on the whole. Basically, the hollowpoint mushrooms out. Just GIS some bullet photos until you find shots of expended ammunition recovered from targets and use your intuition on which you'd rather have in the other guy.

Also, don't buy too much into the idea of stopping power. Our military guys are having an issue with needed multiple shots from a nine to kill someone, but dude, you are probably never going to hear the words "go ahead and shoot me it's just a nine"

Personally: Get normal ball or wadcutter ammo for target practice. with. Get hollowpoint to keep in the gun if you use it for anything. (it's more expensive) Shoot a clip of hollowpoint every once in a while as it feels a little different.

***Plasma*** · Posted On: 3/25/2006 7:25pm

Originally Posted by JohnnyCache

They also spread for a larger wound profile on the whole. Basically, the hollowpoint mushrooms out. Just GIS some bullet photos until you find shots of expended ammunition recovered from targets and use your intuition on which you'd rather have in the other guy.

Also, don't buy too much into the idea of stopping power. Our military guys are having an issue with needed multiple shots from a nine to kill someone, but dude, you are probably never going to hear the words "go ahead and shoot me it's just a nine"

Personally: Get normal ball or wadcutter ammo for target practice. with. Get hollowpoint to keep in the gun if you use it for anything. (it's more expensive) Shoot a clip of hollowpoint every once in a while as it feels a little different.

Thats exactly what I plan. I plan to get the standard rounds for target practice. However, the plan is I ever need/want this firearm for personal protection is won't be worthless.

My plan is if I need it for that, I load it with hollow point rounds. I don't want to have to empty a clip just to stop a guy.

**SFGOON** · Posted On: 3/25/2006 8:30pm

My take on it is to aviod the 9mm and .38 altogether - if you can't afford to purchase .40 ammo you sure as hell can't afford a decent firearm. My reccomendatio will always be the .40 or .357 - and you will be needing hollowpoints. They won't overpenetrate and kill anyone standing behind your target, the expend all thier energy in the targets body hurting him worse, and they make him or her hemmorage (lose blood) much quicker.

With a handgun, multiple shots will be needed for rapid incapacitation. Make sure your weapon is reliable so it can do this consistently. DO not "plink," or fire one shot at a time when training with it - empty the fucking clip into the target, every time. This will train you to do the same under stress. Just like you wouldn't practice punching with a limp wrist, don't shoot in any way but the way you'd do it in a gunfight. (I'm assuming you're wanting it for self defense and not top secret commando raids, you wily ninja you.) Any questions feel free to PM , I have alot of knowledge on the subject and LOVE to talk about it.

***Plasma*** · Posted On: 3/25/2006 8:40pm

Originally Posted by SFGOON

My take on it is to aviod the 9mm and .38 altogether - if you can't afford to purchase .40 ammo you sure as hell can't afford a decent firearm. My reccomendatio will always be the .40 or .357 - and you will be needing hollowpoints. They won't overpenetrate and kill anyone standing behind your target, the expend all thier energy in the targets body hurting him worse, and they make him or her hemmorage (lose blood) much quicker.

With a handgun, multiple shots will be needed for rapid incapacitation. Make sure your weapon is reliable so it can do this consistently. DO not "plink," or fire one shot at a time when training with it - empty the fucking clip into the target, every time. This will train you to do the same under stress. Just like you wouldn't practice punching with a limp wrist, don't shoot in any way but the way you'd do it in a gunfight. (I'm assuming you're wanting it for self defense and not top secret commando raids, you wily ninja you.) Any questions feel free to PM , I have alot of knowledge on the subject and LOVE to talk about it.

Yes, self defense. However, is top secret commando ninja raids sound appealing........ hmm.......

Tell you the truth I don't like the .40 caliber round. I prefer a 9mm to a .40. As for the .357 cal, the only firearm I seen firing those are revolvers (which I am not a big fan of) and the Glocks. In addition that round is hard to come by. That why I was looking at the 9mm. In addition, that what I have the MOST expirence shooting, therefore, I think it would make a good first firearm for me.

I guess if you are emptying the clip into the target a 9mm hollowpoint would do the job just find, however, let go the multiple opponents phase. This is more a theoritical question. How many shots using a 9mm hollowpoint who stop the target before moving on?

**SFGOON** · Posted On: 3/25/2006 8:47pm

That depends on how big he is, and how tweaked he is. There is a documented case of a police officer dying from shock after being hit in the forearm by a .25 caliber round (The Tactical Edge, Charles Remsberg.) Other people have been shot through the heart and beaten the shooter to death before dying themselves.

Conventional wisdome used to say "double tap," but this has proven ineffective. The new doctine is to keep firing at a rate of one per second until the SOB goes down. It could be one, it could be fifteen. Just keep going until he dies. If he falls to the ground, head-job him to make sure. Gruesome, but this is life and death. It also depends on where you shoot him. Center mass is easiest to hit. The skull contians the central nervous system, but the throat is MUCH softer.:new_2guns

Honestly, if you can draw down and sink the SOB when you're afraid for your life, clean your shorts then let me know, you'll be my hero forever.

***Plasma*** · Posted On: 3/25/2006 8:54pm

Originally Posted by SFGOON

That depends on how big he is, and how tweaked he is. There is a documented case of a police officer dying from shock after being hit in the forearm by a .25 caliber round (The Tactical Edge, Charles Remsberg.) Other people have been shot through the heart and beaten the shooter to death before dying themselves.

Conventional wisdome used to say "double tap," but this has proven ineffective. The new doctine is to keep firing at a rate of one per second until the SOB goes down. It could be one, it could be fifteen. Just keep going until he dies. If he falls to the ground, head-job him to make sure. Gruesome, but this is life and death. It also depends on where you shoot him. Center mass is easiest to hit. The skull contians the central nervous system, but the throat is MUCH softer.:new_2guns

Makes sense. Thanks.

Originally Posted by SFGOON

Honestly, if you can draw down and sink the SOB when you're afraid for your life, clean your shorts then let me know, you'll be my hero forever.

If that happens, I mean it could, that crazy samurai still wants to kill me for getting his teaching license revoked, I want a special Bullshido Tag "SFGOON's Hero".