Posted On:3/26/2006 11:52am
Style: BJJ, Judo
True, true. Two good grapplers going up against one another often results in a stalemate.
Still, though, I find most of the groundwork in the UFC pretty uninspiring.
But then again, I'm a Pride nutrider.
All Out of Bubblegum
Posted On:3/26/2006 9:11pm
Well, I think that two things are true of grappling: There's a bigger gulf to overcome when a skill differential exists, and there's a greater chance of stalemate when it doesn't.
There's no choice but to confront you, to engage you, to erase you. I've gone to great lengths to expand my threshold of pain. I will use my mistakes against you. There's no other choice.
The Bottom Brick
Posted On:3/27/2006 7:23am
Style: BJJ, Ju-Jitsu
Punisher wrote: "Can you name some specific instances?"
I dont want to detract from some of the excellent strikers we have had in the UFC in the recent past. I am a huge fan of Chuck Liddel's ability to control the fight and keep it in his phase of combat. Though I think he can do this because he is an excellent wrestler and Jiu-Jitsu player. I've watched his earlier fights and he can take it to the ground in a very effective fashion.
Yeah I have specific examples, but I am going to have to pull up my PVR of 57 and 58. I saw activity in the clinch and Mario Yamasaki seperating them. I saw fighters setting up the move before the submission and getting stood up. Then I saw fighters stalling intentionally on the ground in order to get a stand up because they didnt want to fight gaurd.
I am a bit of a Pride fan on this one, I really like to see open field grappling.
What I dont like is the constant discussion of making fights exciting rather then trying to find out who is the better fighter.
Seeker of Truth
Posted On:3/27/2006 2:52pm
Style: Five Animal Fighting
There is a another recently started thread that addresses what we're talking about.
Once you find your examples, continue the discusison here:
Posted On:3/27/2006 8:25pm
Punisher, thanks for the link, I'll read that one.
I am a huge fan of the complete cross-training fighter. GSP etc. But I have to admit to a grappling bias.
Posted On:3/29/2006 3:36pm
Style: Jiu Jitsu
Originally Posted by GoJu - Joe
I think a lot of the recent stand-up's so to speak in the UFC are more related to the general parity in jiu-jitsu / grappling skill that most athletes have now as compared to the last few years. Wrestlers like Hughes have good submission and sub defences besides just slams and GnP. And BJJ BB's like BJ Penn and Kenny Florian have excellent striking games. Between striking and grappling it seems easier for good grappling to neutralize each other, where as striking causes damage no matter what when a good hit lands and it becomes a matter of who can damage the other person more and can withstand more damage.
Case in point BJ wasn't able to do anything against GSP on the ground and had a lot more success against him striking.
IMO BJ didnt even try to fight on the ground with George until the last few seconds of the final round. When the fight hit the mat, BJ was trying to stand back up.
Again imo, this was his downfall in the fight.
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