Speaking of Sankajo (the pic above)...
Originally Posted by elnyka
In early of 2005, one of our 19 year old 2nd Dan kid got mugged (extorted) near his college by three adults. To get some perspective, he is about 5' 5" weighing about 110 - 120 lbs. We are Asian, we are usually not very big. He did not tell us the size of the muggers, but we are generally of not very big build. The three thugs were unarmed.
One of the thugs grabbed his wrist and he did a sankajo (the same techniques as shown above). Then he pivoted and swung his other free fist into the thugs' chin and subsequently did a take-down. Subsequently the thugs left, and he quickly left the place.
For a clearer perspective, below is an animated version of the technique. I am sure what he did may not look like an exact copy of the animation, but I show it nonetheless for clarity.
tenkai kote hineri aka sankajo: 3rd techique on the page
I don't think I would try holding a sankyo out in free space like that, especially with one hand. That would be pretty easy to escape from.
This line of reasoning seems to be lost on the Sumo people.
Originally Posted by Doctor X
The world's heaviest athlete, Manny Yarborough at 745 lbs:
I have seen my instructor show his TKD students **** like that and then explain that things like that are what make Hapkido so deadly ...
The strange thing is that in class we don't learn them unless someone asks and then he takes the entire class to "catch us up " on them incase the GM drags his out of his home office ....
The last time that happend I left without
- breaking a sweat
- touching my gloves
- touching the bags
- punching anything or anyone
- kicking anything or anyone
- throwing anyone in anyway that resembled anything that would work against resistance
- any live drills
- laughing good naturedly when I didn't go with a bullshit technique and asked to by my Instructor
- discussing renewing my contract that would be ending sooon
- thanking my instructor for a good class
while every one else was laughing and talking about how much fun the class was ... I still haven't gone back .
I would like to point out that breaking/dislocating fingers is highly effective when used early (read the beganing ) of a conflict to limit punching/striking/gripping . Of course this is usualy premptive and it is considered rude to snap the fingers of someone poking your chest and talking **** . You may find that people viewing may take offense to the act ...
small joint manipulation is great if you get it set and push throuh to break ... I wouldn't actually try to "submit" someone who is truly dedicated to beating my ass .
There are much better locks to use to remove drunk rowdy customers than SMJ ... at the very least lock the wrist ... preferably the elbow or the shoulder . I wouldn't want to put a "finger lock" on someone who doesn't want to leave a bar , that is unless you don't mind dislocating his **** when he struggles .
Last edited by BackFistMonkey; 3/27/2006 2:42pm at .
Originally Posted by ghost55
“I don't mean to sound bitter, cold, or cruel, but I am, so that's how it comes out.”
Originally Posted by WFMurphyPhD
I think the tori was putting up a show and posing for the camera, don't think he was seriously applying the technique... you know a bit of fun among dojo mates.
Originally Posted by FredGarvinMP
Also, do realize that Sankyo and many of the kyo techniques were not designed to be held on for indefinitely. In jiyu waza (free sparring) training, should you get a hold like sankyo, you quickly take down your uke and continue to take care of the next incoming uke (esp in multiple uke randori).
Another trick for this technique is to spin the uke into his friends causing them to bang into each other, while you proceed to attend to the next uke. This is what I call causing disharmony or breaking their attack pattern/rythym.
As one practice more of such technique in free play setting, you get to do it in the most optimum sense, you adjust it here and there until you find what is optimum for you. The most important factor is, you can only do it well, if you regularly play randori, and develop your skill from there. Kata or kihon waza is a good for learning the technical detail/blueprint, but it is randori that one learn the application. No teacher/sensei can teach you how to do randori, they can only motivate, coach, advise you... ultimately you are the one who is going to teach yourself.
In randori, you most likely may not get to do the perfect hold, most likely you may not get the perfect positioning, it is still OK, as long you do not become unbalanced yourself, can always continue to do something else. Remember, in randori'ing with multiple ukes; it is chaotic, it is disorganised for you and even more so among the ukes. You will be surprised that sometimes a simple push or a trip here and there on the incoming ukes, can cause massive disarray and confusion among the mass of attacking people.
I should stop here, I am too long-winded.
Tom, might I enquire as to what sport this huge behemoth participate in?
Originally Posted by Tom Kagan
yep, just because you have to use force does not mean you are in a fight. I've used wrist locks as well, but if it were a fight I'm quite sure I'd get a bloody nose for trying. Off balancing techniques for escorting people work good on people with a few drinks in them, not so well on trained fighters...
Originally Posted by elipson
Single finger locks IMO are not worth it in any situation though, they break too easily. I'm sure anyone that has spent time in any contact sport has broken fingers and toes, it sucks, but with enough adrenhline you don't even notice at first.
I think this is the big danger in training self-defence without hard sparring. Even if you give in and let people say that it doesn't help skill wise, people that don't train hard in a contact sport very often have a very skewed idea of what the human body is capable of taking before a person gives out. A broken finger isn't going to stop anyone, all it will do is make them really mad...
I totally agree with you. They also aren't to great if someone can't feel pain (pcp) or is so determined to escape that they dont mind breaking something. Telling a guy you're going to break his wrist if he dont stop fucking around works really well, IMHO.
Off balancing techniques for escorting people work good on people with a few drinks in them, not so well on trained fighters...
If by some random chance I got a hold of someones finger in a fight, I'd break it and move onto something else. At the very least he'll have trouble grabbing with that hand.
I sit corrected!
Originally Posted by Tom Kagan
Best description of Sumo is from a British critic of televised matches. No matter how well the presenters explain it for a British audience, "it still looks like two fat boys fighting over a chocolate."
If anyone tries to do a sankyo like the seen in elnyka's post in a decent, he's going to hear a big NO NO.
In that pic Uke is not controlled in any way: he can escape easily with only pointing down his elbow. Tori has his thumb in a bad place and what is worst, he's doing the tecnnique single handed and without putting any pressure on uke nor taking his balance.
As GMW said, they probably are doing some show for fun.
Here's another pic of a single handed sankyo, but you can see how tori is locking uke's hand with his chest and uke's elbow with his arm while putting pressure on uke's body and preparing his right hand fist to punch for "t3h win".
I AM SO EMO!
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