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  1. meng_mao is offline
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    software engineer

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    Posted On:
    3/21/2006 3:02am

    supporting member
     Style: kickboxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by wagamichi
    I bet you would like to know. I have been doing push hands for years. Great drill. Find someone to show you the drill. it becomes self evident in short order. Help locking or striking? Yes.
    Is it just a method of getting around someone's arms/guard to attack their head / upper body?
  2. wagamichi is offline
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    Posted On:
    3/21/2006 3:09am


     Style: wagamichi shorei kempo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by meng_mao
    Is it just a method of getting around someone's arms/guard to attack their head / upper body?

    Well...Mostly it is all about yeilding to pressuer and redirecting and countering. There are a lot of differnt ways of doing this drill. Some stupid and some good. I like the tai chi version.

    Goes like this. You push on my chest...I turn and press while rotating...you fall down. Back and forth it goes...trying to find the balence points and neutrilize the force pressing in. Now a push is a slow punch. I also do a chi sau that is pushands with strikes as well as pressing. This also involves the legs. No pads and done hard. You learn real quick how to move your body to deflect and defend hits. This is not sparring. Not a game. There are no points or goals other than hiting and throwing. Thats how we do it anyway.
  3. meng_mao is offline
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    software engineer

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    Posted On:
    3/21/2006 3:19am

    supporting member
     Style: kickboxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by wagamichi
    Well...Mostly it is all about yeilding to pressuer and redirecting and countering. There are a lot of differnt ways of doing this drill. Some stupid and some good. I like the tai chi version.
    It seems like working in this range could be circumvented by a good leg-kicker (assuming that you don't train push-hands-strategies for kicks, which I guess I can sort of see in taichi and sanda). Is push hands always a part of a complete whole, or is it overemphasized, you think?
  4. Arbiter is offline
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    punch-drunk

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    Posted On:
    3/21/2006 10:56am

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     Style: SanDa / MMA / Kung-Fu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Push hands and chi sao can be beneficial drills.
    I have found them very useful. Trouble is they are waaaay overemphasized in tai chi and wing chun to the point where most practioners are led to believe that is sparring and all they need, where it is just a developmental drill, albeit an important one for those arts.
    CMA inbreeding and culling of certain elements has had the effect of turning the wolf into a toy poodle over the past century or so.
  5. KhorneliusPraxx

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    Posted On:
    3/21/2006 11:17am


     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I can give no advice...as my Chi Sao is alot like my boxing, kicking, and grappling...it sucks much ass.:icon_shak
  6. j416to is offline

    Middleweight

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    Posted On:
    3/21/2006 11:53am

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     Style: Muay Thai, Kenjutsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Tai Chi push hands actually makes some sense to me, as a balance drill. And I've actually seen someone get knocked out doing it. The guy was pushing with all his might, got redirected, and crashed down onto his face.

    But Wing Chun Chi Sao seems retarded. Tactal sensitivity? Give me a break. Rubbing forearms isn't going to help you avoid a punch in the head. Well, not unless the punch is coming from another Wing Chun practitioner who insists on trying to maintain contact with your forearms, as he tries to chain punch you in the chest with a vertical fist. Then yes, practicing Chi Sao probaly helps you get better at Chi Sao.
  7. Mr.Mundane is offline

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    Posted On:
    3/21/2006 12:18pm


     Style: Kung Fu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Chi sao is good to practice relaxation and weight distribution while making contact and moving your arms and feet. Makes sense, since if your muscles are all rigid and stiff you won't be able to punch for ****. It works for me.

    It's a good thing to practice every now and then, but it has to be evident that there is chi sao training and fight training.
  8. Tom Kagan is offline
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    Dark Overlord of the Bullshido Underworld

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    Posted On:
    3/21/2006 12:43pm

    supporting member
     Style: Taai Si Ji Kung Fu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I don't know TaiChi TsuiSao (push hands).


    The nature of Ving Tsun ChiSao (sticking hands) is to unbalance your training partner via strikes while sealing off counters and with follow up and finishing, while primarily maintaining striking distance.

    The way to explain the real application of ChiSao to someone who does not understand the real application of ChiSao - and really needs to know it in a nutshell - is to blast them.

    Whether ChiSao achieves the above is another topic. :smile: If a practitioner cannot do it after training for a while, then the possibility distinctly remains that they are indeed learning patty-cake.
  9. wagamichi is offline
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    Posted On:
    3/21/2006 1:20pm


     Style: wagamichi shorei kempo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by meng_mao
    It seems like working in this range could be circumvented by a good leg-kicker (assuming that you don't train push-hands-strategies for kicks, which I guess I can sort of see in taichi and sanda). Is push hands always a part of a complete whole, or is it overemphasized, you think?

    It is just a drill. I think all drills are overehphasized by someone. I point fight, kick box, box, groundfight, do push-hands, and a host of other fighting drills. Yes it is true that is all you do is push-hands, you are probably LARPING and not learning to fight. Having said that, I Played push-hands with a chinese guy named Peter Gao onetime and he beat the **** out of me when it got rough. He said he only does push-hands. I think he lied but can't back that up. anyway, good pushands is benificial to any MA. but it is not the magic bullet some want people to think it is.
  10. baqi9 is offline

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    Posted On:
    3/21/2006 2:15pm


     Style: Ving Tsun

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    This is chi sao with a resisting opponent: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UY4t1...ch=wing%20chun
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vz58C...ch=wing%20chun

    chi sao (limb contact) "may" of happen for a split second in a fight. Chi sao teaches what can be done in that split second. Well that is what I understand of it.
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