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  1. Dr._Tzun_Tzu is offline
    Dr._Tzun_Tzu's Avatar

    It's pretty beat up, but it is a complete copy....

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    Posted On:
    5/27/2006 11:54pm

    supporting member
     Style: EBMAS WT/ Latosa Concepts

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    It shows how the Olympic Gold medalist team from Bulgaria had seminars from WT in the 1990's, and Made the Si-Gung of Europe an Honary Professor because they valued his contributions. (i.e. Wrestlers using "chi sau").

    When you punch, and it meets another punch, your reflexes can kick in to make a "block". It is faster then trying to bob and weave or guess what block to use.

    or you can just trade blows....

    "If anything is gained from this, it should be you both wanting to get better so you can make up for how crappy you are now." KidSpatula about the Sirc vs DTT Gong Sau Event
    Until the Bulltube is fixed:
    DTT vs Sirc

  2. asian_mongrel is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/27/2006 11:55pm


     Style: none

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by RoninPimp
    -So you've had success in grappling competitions that you can attribute to that drill? And I love how the definition of chi sao has been expanded. So maybe when 2 wrestlers are hand fighting, the wing chunners will say "see, they're doing contact reflexes just like us". Its really simple, you do not understand grappling. Nothing I've seen of wing chun carries over to real fighting.

    -And WTF with the editing of posts? That's a BITCH move...
    Where was the definition of chi sao expanded? I simply repeated the definition of chi sao and added an example of it in application.
  3. asian_mongrel is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/28/2006 12:04am


     Style: none

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Dr._Tzun_Tzu

    Chi Sau in principle does not have grabing the arms or wrists, because when you grab, you are setting that arm up to be trapped. It does not mean we do not practice against being grabbed, but that we try to not grab ourselves.

    .
    This is correct, wing chun does not promote grappling. I have found this grappling application while cross training with friends who train BJJ.
  4. Shuma-Gorath is offline
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    Senior Member

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    Posted On:
    5/28/2006 12:28am

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     Style: BJJ - Homeland Security

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Dr._Tzun_Tzu
    I am not sure what kind of source other then a WT source would even post something about WT, so it is impossible anyway.....
    That should tell you something.
  5. RoninPimp is offline
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    BJJ Black Belt

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    Posted On:
    5/28/2006 12:36am

    supporting member
     Style: Rex Kwon Do

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Dr._Tzun_Tzu
    It shows how the Olympic Gold medalist team from Bulgaria had seminars from WT in the 1990's, and Made the Si-Gung of Europe an Honary Professor because they valued his contributions. (i.e. Wrestlers using "chi sau").

    When you punch, and it meets another punch, your reflexes can kick in to make a "block". It is faster then trying to bob and weave or guess what block to use.

    or you can just trade blows....
    -It does nothing of the sort. It makes a few unsubstanciated claims with nothing to back it up.

    -You are not only clueless about grappling, you are clueless about striking too.
  6. RoninPimp is offline
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    BJJ Black Belt

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    Posted On:
    5/28/2006 12:37am

    supporting member
     Style: Rex Kwon Do

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by asian_mongrel
    Where was the definition of chi sao expanded? I simply repeated the definition of chi sao and added an example of it in application.
    -I was just beating the Wing Chunners to their next argument in case somebody mentioned hand fighting.
  7. RoninPimp is offline
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    BJJ Black Belt

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    Posted On:
    5/28/2006 12:38am

    supporting member
     Style: Rex Kwon Do

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by asian_mongrel
    This is correct, wing chun does not promote grappling. I have found this grappling application while cross training with friends who train BJJ.
    -Wow, you better let Helio know. You might change the BJJ world!
  8. eyebeams is offline

    Senior Member

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    Posted On:
    5/28/2006 3:50pm


     Style: Kickboxing/Grappling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Shuma-Gorath
    I imagine some planet at the border of the universe itself might have wrestlers who practice push-hands, but our wrestlers here on Earth would crush them.
    Chi sao is not push hands. Chi sao is some wing chun thing. Push hands is a general name for a whole bunch of different drills.

    Push hands can be something fairly "dead" like this:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=znVWJ...h=push%20hands
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y2cqK...h=push%20hands

    or it can be more freeform like this:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eYWMM...h=push%20hands
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kqhAv...h=push%20hands
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ok3PG...h=push%20hands

    And even more freeform, though still limited to crossarm contact:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cs8HW...h=push%20hands

    And then it gets applied to throwing and clinchwork:

    http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...796596&q=shuai

    (Guys from two different arts that use push hands -- including shuai jiao wrestlers.)

    To get the kinds of attributes you *also* find at the beginning of this:

    http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...01&q=grappling

    . . . by guys who I assume don't have any PH experience at all.

    Push hands is a progressive practice that tries to encompass a whole lot of things, and that's probably it's meain weakness. As a progressive series of methods, it tries to cover entries for:

    * Straight up throwing.
    * Striking.
    * Standing come-along style holds.

    . . . so the curriculum is a bit large and holistic for its own good. For example, the wrestlers in the last video are doing things few Tai chi people whould ever do by dropping their heads and A-framing (otr whatever it's called). A Tai Chi guy would take a more upright posture because it's preferential striking and standing holds, but the pure grapplers are in a better position for takedown defense and DLTs. One definite flaw in push hands compared to pummeling is that PH practice teaches you to maintain peng (the distance and shape of your standup guard) instead of getting chest to chest. There are exceptions to this, but so much of it depends on what you're specifically practicing.
  9. RoninPimp is offline
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    BJJ Black Belt

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    Posted On:
    5/28/2006 6:47pm

    supporting member
     Style: Rex Kwon Do

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Translation: Chi Sao is everything. Everything is Chi Sao. CMA does everything everybody else does...
  10. eyebeams is offline

    Senior Member

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    Posted On:
    5/28/2006 10:55pm


     Style: Kickboxing/Grappling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by RoninPimp
    Translation: Reading iz hard.
    Okay. Seek remedial help!
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