The Gun is No Match For Judo

**Doctor X** · Posted On: 3/21/2006 8:30pm

Originally Posted by Jib-Jab

Also does anyone know of any real life situations where a gun defense worked?

I knew of one many years ago, and I was too young to clue in on the important details. They guy was a student who was built like the veritable brick-**** house and, to my memory, broke the guy's spine.

BUT . . . what are the details? Sorry I do not remember. One particular detail is "when." Did the perp get fucked in the process of pulling a gun? Was he real close to the guy? Sorry, but all of that stuff is important, and I do not remember. As other guys have noted in the thread, if the guy is serious he would just shoot you and/or shoot you from a distance. If I am dumb enough to pull a gun, put it up against you, then launch into a Villian's Soliloquy, . . . okay.

I forget the name of the exercise, but it involves a knife versus a gun. At a certain distance, the knife guy invaribly "gets" you before you can draw and shoot.

As I write this, one I do know, now that I think of it, comes from a former-police officer and martial artist who makes the point of distance. He will do this to police he is working with in which he states he will "shoot" the guy before he can react. At a close range, difference of the fact he is initiating an attack with a gun first "beats" the guy standing there.

So what is the point of that? His is that for any defense to work you have to be prepared to do it in time and expect the unexpected--they guy can pull a weaon and use it before you mentally know what is happening.

That being blathered, as others put it, gun defenses are desperations. As with the military, you would prefer to not be in the situation, but since you are in it you might as well have some "plan" even if it is pathetic! The danger comes from those thinking they would want to be in the situation since they have "t3h d34dly skilz" to get out of it!

--J.D.

**Cymro** · Posted On: 3/22/2006 10:12am

I think gun defenses have their place. Based on the material on that judo website and on my own experiance, they're mostly designed to help you disarm someone who's trying to control you with a pistol. Granted, this doesn't happen very often. Most people who pull a gun on you are just going to shoot you, or at least keep a fair distance away.

Still, I'd rather have it and not need it than need it and not have it. My only concern would be that the syllabus has become stagnant instead of being improved and refined over time.

**JohnnyFive** · Posted On: 3/22/2006 1:34pm

Here's one incident of a gun disarm working...

http://www.nydailynews.com/front/sto...p-338495c.html

Seconds after two of his brothers in blue were shot by a madman, a brave Brooklyn cop grabbed the cylinder of a .44-caliber Magnum with his bare hand yesterday to keep more bullets from flying, police said.

Sgt. Chiksum Gong went face to face with cop-hater Jonathan Julian - wresting away the "Dirty Harry"-style weapon as his two colleagues were staggered by slugs stopped by bulletproof vests, officials said.

**schadenfreude** · Posted On: 3/28/2006 4:50am

Originally Posted by Jib-Jab

I was wondering if anyone has ever tried training gun defense against someone with something like a BB gun and been successful. It seems like this would be a good idea to see if the defense really works. If you just try it against someone with a fake gun it would be hard to tell if the person would be able to get a shot off in time. Also does anyone know of any real life situations where a gun defense worked?

They've done it in my Krav class. You do tend to get shot alot. :) But the person holding the weapon is also expecting you to try to take it away. A little misdirection would go a long way.

I'm by no means advocating ninja-esque gun snatching (i mean, give the guy the wallet), but i'd rather have some type of defense if backed into a corner.

Krav is also more concerned with getting out the line of fire, neutralizing the weapon, and counter-attacking before a take away is attempted.:qright7:

**Cymro** · Posted On: 3/28/2006 10:25am

The reason to learn disarms is that if someone's pressing a gun into you, they're trying to control you so that they can move you around or take you somewhere. A mugger will stand at least a couple of yards away and have you hand/toss over the wallet.

I sure as **** would not let a criminal take me anywhere. What do you think's going to happen when you get there?

**Beneath Contempt** · Posted On: 3/28/2006 11:51am

Can we be absolutely clear about this - Judoka do not take Goshin Jutsu Kata seriously. It's a traditional part of judo and is saved along with all the other kata as part of Judo's history. Just like Kime no kata is not seriously intended for use if someone attacks you with a sword, or even Nage no kata for no-gi useage.

Kata are idealised physical records of judo techniques - and as a combat sport, kata is not a training method unto itself. You would be similarly wrong to say judo is useless for throwing if you watched someone perform a kata and think that the attacks were totally unrealistic.

Having said all that, I would agree that if you train the kata enough, and your life is at stake, you really don't have much to lose by giving it a try if you don't have a better idea.