Shorinji Kempo and Brazilian Jujitsu

**Cato** · Posted On: 3/26/2006 10:58am

Originally Posted by Yamabushi

Those videos highlight exactly what is wrong with Shorinji Kempo - it is a demonstration art not a fighting art. It looks good in front of an audience, and the fact that Kenshi will take a flying fall on concrete always impresses those watching, but there is no fighting heart to it.

I don´t agree with you, one of the participant in that demo have won sweden allstyle so if you want to train shorinji kempo in a competetive manner its not impossible. Different shibu have different focus on training, some train very little sparring/randori which is very bad.

**Guerrero** · Posted On: 3/26/2006 1:32pm

Originally Posted by Jadran

How is Muay Thai different from Karate or TKD that it makes the kicks more powerful?

With MT roundhouse kicks you're stepping out at an angle and driving your SHIN THROUGH your opponnent. That's why you see MT guys spin around when they practice the kick in the air. From what I've seen, karatekas generally strike with the foot and snap it back after making contact when they throw round house kicks. As far as straight kicks go, I think it's very debatable as to which styles throw it harder. I don't think MT front kicks are more powerful, but I do think they're more practical.

**Yamabushi** · Posted On: 3/26/2006 4:44pm

Originally Posted by Cato

I don´t agree with you, one of the participant in that demo have won sweden allstyle so if you want to train shorinji kempo in a competetive manner its not impossible. Different shibu have different focus on training, some train very little sparring/randori which is very bad.

What are the rules of the Swedish All Style competition? I take it, since it claims to be "all styles" that it is some sort of full contact MMA competition. If it is I am impressed - but I would say that the number of Shorinji Kempo dojo that train hard randori is probably limited. I trained with a very high ranking Japanese instructor who had trained directly with Kaiso and I never took part in hard sparring. Presumeably you agree I got sub-standard training and was right to leave?

I also happen to know that Swedish practitioners engaging in cross training to improve their MA have come in for criticism from a number of other kenshi.

**LI GUY 1** · Posted On: 3/26/2006 8:35pm

So he won the swedish all style? Did he use a crane block/ down block/ridgehand???? Any kempo techniques to make someone say, "he's obviously a kempo fighter". He probably would have won the tournament easier by practicing kickboxing or something.

I only say this because when it seems no one knows yt a good way to spar in the kempo ( or other TMA ) techniques so I don't see how winning a sparring tourney makes him good a t kempo.

**Cato** · Posted On: 3/30/2006 6:16pm

Allstyle is not an MMA event, there is no groundfighting. Im not sure about the rules but I think its full contact to the body, kicks to the head aloud, but no punches to the head (or semi-contact/light-contact).

Im also very aware that a lot of shibus practice too little randori, and if they do they do it at very low level. Its my own opinion but I think that old japanese teachers in europe do not wish to have hard randori. An ego and authority thingie i suppose. Very bad ofcourse for the people trained under those theachers.

LI GUY 1 >>

I don´t know much about various kempo styles, but shorinjikempo does not look much like amercian kempostyles, they are very different. And why do you think its so difficult to spar in TMA? Just put a mouthpeace and a cup on and begin, its not harder than that.

**UpaLumpa** · Posted On: 3/30/2006 8:32pm

So this third dan isn't part of some association? Big deal.

At the least it at least looks like they spar.

Nonetheless, just focus on the bjj.

**blugularis** · Posted On: 11/18/2007 1:37pm

I hear several references to "Kempo" in the above thread (like the one about self-advancement). Shorinji Kempo should never be mistaken for "Kempo" aka Ed Parker, Chow, etc. Shoinji Kempo was started in Japan by Doshen So, and is supposedly Chinese Shaolin, taken from China to Japan by So. It does have a number of forms, which use more sun-fist and look more Chinese style. However, it also consists of a lot of aiki-jitsu (daito-ryu) in terms of locks and grabs. Very similar to Aikido, and most all of Shorinji Kempo is defensive. However, there is a new offshoot from Shorinji that is full contact called Byruken (sp?). Tournaments are similar to Oyama style rules. Neat stuff.

**blugularis** · Posted On: 8/30/2009 9:07am

After studying more about Doshen So, I can concur that there is a good possibility that Shorinji Kempo, the "church" (and it is in the UK and Japan), based on Chan or Zen Buddhism, and philosophy, might indeed not concur with the concept of a hard rondori, particularly in the method of knock-down Kyokushin-kai karate. When you watch a Byruken tournament, fighting, looks almost excactly like Oy ama, either they are cross-training, or maybe fighting is fighting, and works and looks the same.

**Matko** · Posted On: 10/06/2009 2:59am

Sorry guys for necroing this thread, but considering that i train under Zoran Grgos, which has been taught Shorinji Kempo under Miran Škerl, i feel i could possibly share some light about this well accusations about being a mcdojo or bullshido.

Things I can talk about is of course training in shaolin club which is run by Zoran Grgos. It certainly is not mcdojo. Sparing is (higher belts) very often and goes from light contact to hard one.

We also do some Jia. But i don't think that our trainer has any references although he went to some seminars, but we often have wrestlers, judokas, and different grapplers to show off some of the techniques. And for you to consider is that our member won silver medal in Zagreb open grapple tournement.

If you are interested in some more information, be free to ask...

**blugularis** · Posted On: 10/06/2009 4:51am

I would never consider anyone who came from So Doshen's Shorinji Kempo, as coming from a McDojo, and not even sure how this came up. I don't consider that there is much, if any, relationship(s), between the S. Kempo that derived from Shaolin and Daito-ryu aiki-jiu-jitsu, as even related, in any way to that of Parker and his cohorts. S. Kempo is an religion, albeit zen based, and having trained with a nidan, in Idaho, as well as a shodan (again in Idaho), I have found them to be rather enjoyable, and definatally not commercial or fake, and also respectful and dedicated. Having seen more than one McDojo in Idaho, and at least a few of them were Kemp/aka Parker's, there is a night and day difference. Osu!