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  1. Fitz is offline

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    Posted On:
    3/17/2006 11:19am


     Style: Judo, Tomiki Aikido, ??

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    It might be worth bringing out some sources and documentation for this project.

    Karate's never really been an area of much interest for me but one of the better early English language essays on the topic appears in Donn Draeger's _Modern Budo and Bujutsu Volume III: Martial Arts and Ways of Japan Vol 3_ with the most recent edition published by Weatherhill in 1996. This thread has me skimming the two essays on Karate in David Lowery's _Traditions: Essays on the Japanese Martial Arts and Ways_ published by Tuttle in 2002 which seem to have some information to offer for this discussion. McCarthy's work seem like a good jumping point as well.

    Anyone else have any potential sources for this project?
    Last edited by Fitz; 3/17/2006 11:22am at .
  2. lee is offline

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    Posted On:
    3/17/2006 1:18pm


     Style: pak mei

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    info on the development of karate

    karate the way by gichin funakoshi 1935 . this is excellant as it will give you the info from the horses mouth(old saying ) lol its hard to research as a old man in the arts (about 5o years this year)l spent a lot of time researching .there were visits bwtween okinawa and china going back many years. so info who did what and so on is pretty sketchy . remembering a lot of martial artist were illiterate or didnt bother with records. this probably is because they were more interested in saving there skin than worrieing about its history for the most part. you should try to research china arts its even more confusing .
    Last edited by lee; 3/17/2006 1:27pm at .
  3. CanucKyokushin is offline

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    Posted On:
    3/18/2006 2:59pm

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     Style: Not.....working

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    "Karate began to take shape as a martial art in Okinawa, the main island of the Ryukyu Islands. This fighting art was formerly referred to as Chinese Kempo, signifying its roots and place of origin. It was not until early 20th century that it took on the name Karate in Japan."

    Can we all agree that the 2 Kung-fu styles to have the most influence on the developement that would become Okinawa-Te are Praying-Manthis and Kenpo?
  4. lee is offline

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    Posted On:
    3/18/2006 3:35pm


     Style: pak mei

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    history

    as l can understand okinawa , it was influenced heavily by hung style as it was taught to okinawansby teachers from the southern part of china which is closest to them . hung basics are the basics of karate. other styles were not open to non chinese. as l remember funikoshi wrote that he changed what he taught to the japanese to go along with there intelect. l have a freind from china who teaches preying mantis from what l have seen its quite different than karate. as to kempo it appears to have arisen mostly in hawai by a mix put to-gether by a a groupe who did varied arts. non l dont belive did preying mantis . my opinion the hung style was the largest contributer to karate and to kempo . however like a lot of places in the world most had fighting arts developed in their area of the world. these may not have been influenced by any outside contact.
    Last edited by lee; 3/18/2006 3:40pm at .
  5. Shaolin Bushido is offline
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    Posted On:
    3/19/2006 5:15am

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     Style: Submission Grappling

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    Quote Originally Posted by Locu5
    Its the "don't post a link without a comment" rule he is referring to. I think he likes you.
    Yeh, that's what I was talkin about. I actually think that's a weird rule because once you post a link that sorta says it all ... why start postin your opinions which probably pretty much are in the link you posted.

    Nah, I wasn't tryin to be catty ... just a little sarcastic and witty. I guess I failed.
  6. Shaolin Bushido is offline
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    Posted On:
    3/19/2006 5:20am

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     Style: Submission Grappling

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Canuckyokushin
    "Karate began to take shape as a martial art in Okinawa, the main island of the Ryukyu Islands. This fighting art was formerly referred to as Chinese Kempo, signifying its roots and place of origin. It was not until early 20th century that it took on the name Karate in Japan."

    Can we all agree that the 2 Kung-fu styles to have the most influence on the developement that would become Okinawa-Te are Praying-Manthis and Kenpo?
    I thought that the varieties of Shorin Ryu were directly related to the White Crane styles of Kung Fu. I thought there was a lineage cited in the Bubishi.
  7. Blooming lotus is offline

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    Posted On:
    3/19/2006 1:04pm


     Style: gongfu

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    So it seems.
    http://experts.about.com/q/Karate-33...-breathing.htm

    http://www.aei.ca/~straycat/kungfu/w-crane.html

    http://forum.kungfumagazine.com/foru...hp/t-6974.html

    http://www.fwckungfu.com/servlet/bai...late/Styles.vm

    The thing with white crane though is that it comes from the fukien ( or fujian ) southern shaolin temple before Emporor K'ang (-hsu) ordered it's razing and everyone split either overseas or to the new temple in the nth. If we're tracing it back though, because of a few factors in the temple at time, the origins of white crane and ng moi ( the creator of that system ) or Fang Chi-Niang ( creator by other accounts) gets a llittle blurry. There all sorts of variations on the story that have her coming from china and others again that have her coming to china from vietnam where as a princess in some of those stories brought with her and adapted some triad family pre-wing chun kung fu.

    There's a few good reads up there though and if it doesn't confuse the hell out of you it should shed a little light.

    cheers :)
    Last edited by Blooming lotus; 3/19/2006 1:06pm at .
  8. Blooming lotus is offline

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    Posted On:
    3/19/2006 1:11pm


     Style: gongfu

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    While I'm here, this ones pretty intersting too

    http://www.dragon-tsunami.org/Dtimes.../article39.htm
  9. Shaolin Bushido is offline
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    Posted On:
    3/19/2006 2:49pm

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     Style: Submission Grappling

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    Quote Originally Posted by Blooming lotus
    While I'm here, this ones pretty intersting too

    http://www.dragon-tsunami.org/Dtimes.../article39.htm
    Thanks. I'll be awhile sorting out this stuff again but it's pretty interesting to me. I first stumbled across the topic of the origins when I discovered that my WTF TKD instructor was flat out lying to me about modern TKD's origins and began to trace it back for myself.

    Since then, I've collected some books and other sources such as the one's you've listed. I always end up re-visiting the subject every few years. Thanks alot.
  10. Blooming lotus is offline

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    Posted On:
    3/19/2006 3:23pm


     Style: gongfu

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Shaolin Bushido
    ..when I discovered that my WTF TKD instructor was flat out lying to me about modern TKD's origins and began to trace it back for myself.

    .

    lol... it usually does go something like that but no-one has aaall the answers so you can't even really be too hard on them. As long as there's sOomeone around to get ppl on the track then that's a real nice start and they're worth having around.
    It's a long story.. have fun with it. ;)

    BtL
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