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  1. Sheol is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/19/2002 1:08pm


     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    hockey chick:
    But it is better to cooperate, they are in control, desperate, with nothing to lose while I have everything to lose, my life.
    For years, police have advocated cooperation, but that is changing to an extent, since cooperation is the WORSE thing that you can do in many situations. If someone holds you up at gun-point. They have an advantage, but they don't want to kill you yet. They want something. If immediately giving them your wallet/purse/car doesn't satisfy them or it isn't what they ask for, THEN YOU ARE IN GREAT DANGER OF LOSING YOUR LIFE. At that point, they are probably looking for a way to kill you without attracting attention. Cooperating with them puts you where your ATTACKER wants you. Now, you are likely to be killed, whatever you do or say. Most violent criminals are repeat offenders. Killing you wouldn't even phase them... but they still don't want to be caught. You, unfortunately, are a loose end to be taken care of.
  2. Royal Dragon is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/19/2002 1:31pm


     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Peedee, Love you SmmmoooooCH!!!!

    Sheol,
    I have to say you gave great advice. I have to say though, if her lease on the Cab wasn't up it does not matter. Lots of people lease cars, she can just use it as her daily driver till it's over, thats all.

    Second, a woman driving a cab at night for a living is asking to get hurt. I'm betting she would be safer being a hooker. At least the deal is clear from the start.

    I don't know about Pepper spray enough to comment, only that the girl I'm with now has a pepper foam, and she zingged me with it once as a joke, and I hit the ground completely incapcitated

    How that would effect a drugged up freak with no feelings, I'm not sure.

    The way I look at it,she is in a very dangerous job. I would sugjest getting another job driving commercially if she likes to drive so much. A local deliverie job will pay the bills with no lease, and company's often supplie the truck. Many times they are small and don't require a CDL to boot.
  3. Royal Dragon is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/19/2002 1:48pm


     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    PeeDee,
    I think you misunderstamnd me. Your looking at what I am say through the filter of whatever wannabee pretending to be "Traditional" Hack trained you.

    The main thing I'm trying to get across here is the main stream schools that often CLAIM to be traditional are a very far cry from it.

    Their use of forms is all wrong, and none of the ones I have seen have a clue is to what they are, or how to se them to train people.

    Thier use of stance training is wrong. The fact that there are people one here that think you can read wile doing them show me just how bad their teachers were.

    The fact that you yourself in this very post think breaking boards is a traditional actiity shows how poorly you were trained.

    The point I'm tryig to get across is real traditional Kung Fu is quite a bit more like Modern MMA's than you think.
    Yes I strongly beleive in certain traditional training methods, like stance training. But that is only because I was fortunet enough to have learned how to do them the right way, and realy use them for conditioning effectively. It seems from what I am reading here that what is commonly taught as stance training is about as use less as weight lifting just the bar with no weights on it. All the "Teeth" have been taken out of it.

    people site drilling techniques and bag work and kicking pads as being essential to MMA training, especially if your a Muy Tai fighter, and what they don't realize is real honest traditional Kung Fu arts DO do this stuff, quite a bit I might add. It's not, nor was it ever, all forms and stances. Schools that teach that are NOT Traditonal martial arts, they are bad copies of certain exercises that aren't even being taught right.

    You want to know what traditional Kung Fu is?? Add some forms work and stance trainig to XYZ MMA school along with Iron body skills (NOT as intense as Muy Tai guys do though). At least enough to harden the body for blocking punches and hands enough so you don't break them when hitting someone.

    Anyway, back to the subject at hand, One thing I failed to mention in my last post, is if this woman stared learning the baddest art on th planet right now, there would be no way she would be prepared for her next attacker by the time her lease was up. And ther is no way to predict when the next attacker will come.

    It takes time and dedication to master the skills, and even more time to develop and condition the body to actually have the raw strength esssary to make it work against a resisting attacker. She's better off bullet proofing the vehicle, or geting a different job, Sheol said.



    Edited by - Royal Dragon on August 19 2002 13:53:31
  4. hockey chick is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/19/2002 2:38pm


     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    sheol, if you don't cooperate, what do you do? Fight? An attacker wants something, true, money for his next fix or whatever, but they don't want to kill you, only psychopaths and serial killers do that, and they don't ask for your wallet or car. If you frustrate an attacker, the situation will escalate. When it comes to talking about drug addicts, rape victims, and assault victims I know what I am talking about, and victims who fight back, pay drastically. What would you suggest besides cooperation? I'm curious.
  5. Royal Dragon is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/19/2002 2:53pm


     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Hockey Chick,
    I think the issue here is the skill level of the defender VS the skills of the attacker. One of the big problems is when someone goes to fight back they are NOT dealing with the average thug like most suposed, so called "Tradtionoal" schools say. Your dealing with hardened criminals who have persued their own brand of reality combat training most of their lives and are damm good at it.

    No way an average victem is going to be able to handle that, and the criminal knows this ahead of time. In fact they know how to identify an easy target from someone who will give them living hell or maybe kill them. Guess who they pick.

    They key is to short circut the victem signals to begin with. The best way to do this is find a good hard core reality based school and transform yourself into a force to be reconed with. Believe it or not, but this will deter most attacks. If it does not you will have atleast put yourself on even ground and have a much better time fighting your way out of a situation, at least enough to runaway.



    Edited by - Royal Dragon on August 19 2002 14:55:43
  6. Sheol is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/19/2002 3:27pm


     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    sheol, if you don't cooperate, what do you do? Fight? An attacker wants something, true, money for his next fix or whatever, but they don't want to kill you, only psychopaths and serial killers do that, and they don't ask for your wallet or car. If you frustrate an attacker, the situation will escalate. When it comes to talking about drug addicts, rape victims, and assault victims I know what I am talking about, and victims who fight back, pay drastically. What would you suggest besides cooperation? I'm curious.
    If an assailant is telling to you to do something, then that's an indication that he needs you to do something that (a) will make whatever he was to do safer for HIM (NOT FOR YOU) and (b) he cannot or is unsure of being able to MAKE you do. In other words, he's asking you to make his commission of the crime easier and to compromise your own safety. JUST DON'T DO IT. If you are driving, get to a public area with as many people as possible and, hopefully, police or security guards. No matter what he says or promises, JUST DRIVE. Honk your horn and attract attention to yourself. If he's driving, do whatever it takes to GET OUT of that vehicle... preferably where there are people.

    Whatever the situation, beg, plead, talk to him about your family, your dog, promise the earth, moon, and stars, but DO NOT PUT YOURSELF IN A WORSE SITUATION BY COOPERATING! Lie? YES! Being uncooperative is MUCH MORE than fighting. It is DENIAL OF OPPORTUNITY. You see, if he intends to kill you, no matter where you are, the simple truth is that your chances of dying are the same, no matter if you cooperate or not. If he is looking for an opportunity to kill you with minimal risk to himself, then your best chance of survival is to DENY him the opportunity by being uncooperative. If he isn't sure about killing you, being non-cooperative doesn't really worsen your chances. Physically attacking him WILL. That is why you maintain dialogue. You want him to believe that he still doesn't have to kill you. If all else is failing and your assailant is in complete control, well then I would take any chance I could get, even if I was outmatched.
  7. hockey chick is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/19/2002 3:56pm


     

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    you are talking about psychopaths, not car jackers, muggers or rapists. If you have a gun to your head while you're driving and you honk your horn to get attention *Bang* your dead. If you do ANYTHING to draw attention to yourself, he will stop you, permanantly.
  8. hockey chick is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/19/2002 4:00pm


     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    ask Kitty Genovese about hoping someone will stop and help; she was raped and murdered in front of 37 people who stood and watched, and did nothing.
  9. Sheol is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/19/2002 4:43pm


     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    you are talking about psychopaths, not car jackers, muggers or rapists. If you have a gun to your head while you're driving and you honk your horn to get attention *Bang* your dead. If you do ANYTHING to draw attention to yourself, he will stop you, permanantly.
    See one of my earlier posts. If giving your car, wallet/purse, or bag of beanie babies doesn't get you out of the situation, then it isn't just a car-jacker or mugger. If it's a rapist... let me tell you something that happened to people that I personally knew.

    Two newlyweds were in downtown Dallas, to eat a nice meal and to take in some movies. Afterwards, they headed towards their vehicle. On the way, they were accosted at gunpoint by three men. The husband gave up his keys and wallet. Both were then forced into their vehicle and driven to various ATMs, where they withdrew the maximum amount of cash possible for the night. Both the husband and wife were then taken to an abandoned building where both were stripped, tied up, and the husband put in a separate room while his wife was raped. After a time, the men left, telling the couple not to leave and that they would be back in only a few minutes. After a few minutes had passed, the husband finally managed to escape his bonds, break down the door, and untie his wife. They both ran into the streets, trying to flag down passing motorists. Eventually, someone dialed 911 and the police picked them up. Some time later, the police were able to identify at least one of the men (via the ATM footage). He was a repeat violent felon. The police told the couple that they were lucky to be alive... and that if they had stayed, they would have likely been killed.

    So, would they have been killed? Two witnesses. Aggravated assault with a deadly weapon, rape, grand theft auto, etc. At LEAST one violent repeat offender. I'd say that they would have. How could they have known or realized that the men might actually kill them, despite promises to the contrary? Simple. They couldn't. There was at least one point where the husband could have escaped while they were driving through the crowded downtown streets, but he was afraid of risking his wife. (He's a good guy.)

    The point to all this is that you have no way of knowing if someone is intending to kill you. You have no knowledge of his past criminal record. You do not know his state of mind. There are few clues that a panicked victim will percieve. The truth of the matter is if "Jimmy" the gangbanger is ready to 'bust-a-cap' in your head, it probably doesn't matter what you do to appease him or oppose him. So, give up your material possessions. They're not worth it. Is rape 'better' than death? That's not my call. It's the victim's call. However, I would prefer life over death. Understand that I'm not telling any to be a hero, but I saying that you need to avoid providing the opportunity for a criminal to kill you. As I've repeated, the real danger is when the assailant needs somewhere 'private' to deal with you... and he gets there. There, he can rape you, beat you, and/or kill you.... There, he can do anything with impunity. Without fear of being caught.

    Everyone has to make their own decisions. These posts are just my opinions and observations of the trends of criminal violence. I really wish that we had some LEOs here to express their opinions and observations.
  10. Sheol is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/19/2002 4:49pm


     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    ask Kitty Genovese about hoping someone will stop and help; she was raped and murdered in front of 37 people who stood and watched, and did nothing.
    If someone was willing to rape and kill in public, then they would have been doubly willing to rape and kill in private. See several of my previous posts. As for public reaction... what can anyone say? Does it make the tactic any less valid? No it doesn't. Everyplace is not the same. Everybody is not the same. Sometimes, all we can do is hope for the best.
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