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  1. Fantasy Warrior is offline
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    Misguided style basher

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    Posted On:
    3/14/2006 5:39pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Kata

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Matching training to goal: SD

    This is a cross-post of a thread I made on Martial Talk after a silly amount of flaming in a previous related thread. It explains my pressure chart. The Chart has been posted here before and recieved some criticism and some more positive comments.

    Make of it what you will.

    The chart is entirely down to me. It’s come together over the years and reflects my SD influences, such as Geoff Thompson, Dave Turton and Steve Richards, but it is my own take on things.

    It is really about tailoring your training –that’s what it is for. When I first took up MA I had very little control over the training activities I did – I just went along with the class etc. Over the years I have had more control over my training and wanted to devise training patterns which best suited my goals and limitations. The chart came about as a way of evaluating my training options relative to my goal, which is SD proficiency.

    I feel that many martial artists fall into the trap of trying to fit “reality” around their art. I think it is far more commonsensical to do the reverse and try to fit your training to the reality of your goal.

    Now I am one of those who believe that the best training is that which is closet to the target activity yet sustainable. This general approach leads to a desire to increase your comfort zone towards your target activity so that any step-up between training and “reality” is reduced. That doesn’t mean that you do not do supporting activities which compliment your higher pressure training. You may disagree, in which case this whole exercise is lost on you. Each to their own.

    The first step was deciding what factors contribute to make a training activity closer or further away from the reality of SD. I took “reality” to be an all-out fight with no rules – a notional concept which I agree is not always the case – this model does not prevent you applying a scalable response to any real SD situation.

    The key factors as I see them are:
    Contact Level which is how hard you are hit/thrown/pinned etc, but also increasing score if contact is made to the face, and reducing score relative to the amount of protective equipment worn.
    Bandwidth of Resistance which is the diversity of attack you are likely to face – i.e. fewer rules = closer to “reality”. Score was detracted for stop-start setups, choreographed responses etc.

    I believe that of the two factors, Contact Level is more important because it addresses the mental aspects of fighting, which are a major issue, to a greater extent. You can fight with “no rules” to restrict techniques, but if it is non-contact then it can hardly be equal of fighting full contact within a highly restrictive rule-set. But I could not get away from the fact that the fewer rules (i.e. the greater the range of resistance you are likely to face), the closer it is to the target activity. If contact levels alone where used to gauge relevance, boxing would be equal to Muay Thai even though Muay Thai has fewer restrictions on the types of attack you will face.


    The next stage is to attempt to plot the various training activities available to you. My basic placements are as follows:

    *A typical example of an “Asymmetrical drill” would be the attacker wears boxing gloves whilst the defender doesn’t wear gloves, maybe a gumshield and head guard. Starting from a confrontational setting (‘fence” etc) the attacker goes heavy contact whilst the defender attempts to achieve the goal set – such as smothering the attack with a dominant clinch. This fits within a goal-orientated (as opposed to technique orientated) training approach and is what many people mean when they say “pressure tests” etc. It is asymmetrical in the sense that the attacker and defender have different goals/rules. There are numerous variations on the theme and exact placement would vary depending on the specific rules/contact levels.

    The scores are approximate and really a judgment call. The important thing is not to allow stylistic bias to cloud your judgment.

    Note how in general the heavier the contact, the more rules are normally placed, that makes training safer. MMA competition is clearly not sustainable as a weekly training activity, for example. Also note how few if any training activities actually get close to the notional ‘real’ fight. Not even MMA in the sense that it is still 1:1 and unarmed and never initiated from ambush (you know you are going to fight before you have to). BUT, find a training activity which is closer. One possible contender is “animal day” training as promoted by Geoff Thompson in UK. Animal day is basically full-tilt sparring along MMA lines but with an SD orientation. It tends to be less heavy contact than MMA sparring because heavier bag gloves are worn and these are typically discarded once the fight goes to the ground in which case striking the face is not allowed (at least not if you discard your gloves). Recent improvements in MMA training gloves make “animal day” and MMA sparring virtually the same however. Another training activity that would be plotted closer to “reality” than MMA is the dog Brothers type stick affair because it involves weapons. However, it has the detracting factor of having you armed which is very different from most SD situations where most of us cannot rely on being armed.

    The next stage is to plot your comfort zone. Which of the training activities are you mentally comfortable with? Does going in the ring with a boxer scare the poop out of you? Etc.

    An example comfort zones might be:


    The next stage is to attempt to expand your comfort zone, small steps at a time. Examples might be upping the contact levels of your sparring, reducing the rules etc.
    You are a total Douchbag. Train more, post nevermore.
    FickleFingerOfFate -08-21-2007 08:59 AM

    just die already.
    Plasma - 08-20-2007 11:45 PM


    Aikidokkkkakkakakakaaaaa
    Best MA website ever!!!!!: http://www.dogjudo.co.uk/
  2. Plasma is offline
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    Heel Hook Hunter

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    Posted On:
    3/14/2006 6:41pm

    supporting memberforum leaderstaff
     Style: Jiu Jitsu | Knife

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Its seems a bit more flushed out this time. Well done kick catcher.

    One question, I assume "kata" is as in dancing. However, where would "two person kata"or self defense training come in. Like some coming at you and you defending. I do mean full resistance partners and a real attack. That just seems left out of the graph.
  3. ojgsxr6 is offline

    Dorkus Malorkus

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    Posted On:
    3/14/2006 6:45pm

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     Style: Boxing/BJJudo/Crossfit

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Kage Kaze I think that would be considered Drilling. If you're doing a prearranged attack and defense but performing them dynamically I wouldn't consider that Kata.
  4. Fantasy Warrior is offline
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    Misguided style basher

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    Posted On:
    3/14/2006 6:56pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Kata

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by KageKaze
    Its seems a bit more flushed out this time. Well done kick catcher.

    One question, I assume "kata" is as in dancing. However, where would "two person kata"or self defense training come in. Like some coming at you and you defending. I do mean full resistance partners and a real attack. That just seems left out of the graph.
    two person "kata" as in choreographed moves would be pretty low both in contact and bandwidth. Self defence training could mean anything but full resistance etc is generally up there, probably the "asymmetrical drilling".
    You are a total Douchbag. Train more, post nevermore.
    FickleFingerOfFate -08-21-2007 08:59 AM

    just die already.
    Plasma - 08-20-2007 11:45 PM


    Aikidokkkkakkakakakaaaaa
    Best MA website ever!!!!!: http://www.dogjudo.co.uk/
  5. Honey Badger is offline
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    Sardonic or Sarcastic?

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    Posted On:
    3/14/2006 11:12pm

    supporting member
     Style: Filipino Kun Tao, Kali

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Just for discussion, where would you put full contact stickfighting? There is some gear (usually elbow & knee pads, a fencing helmet, and hockey gloves) and very few restrictions (I'm not going to try to hospitalize this guy because he isn't trying to hospitalize me).
    Quote Originally Posted by Canuckyokushin
    I would so do Buttsecks.
  6. Yrkoon9 is offline
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    Brock Sampson

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    Posted On:
    3/15/2006 3:11am

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     Style: 5.56

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Again, very subjective analysis of where certain styles fall.
  7. Askari is offline

    The Bottom Brick

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    Posted On:
    3/15/2006 10:45am


     Style: BJJ, Ju-Jitsu

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Where would the Aikido drills fall. By this I am refering to two man short duration kata.
  8. TKD Black Belt is offline
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    Keeeeee-Yeah!

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    Posted On:
    3/15/2006 11:42am


     Style: Whoo-Hoo-Fu!

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    How come all the 'fun' stuff is out of most people's comfort zone?
  9. Askari is offline

    The Bottom Brick

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    Posted On:
    3/15/2006 1:25pm


     Style: BJJ, Ju-Jitsu

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I also notice that you put grappling/rolling inside the comfort zone. I think that this is so far out of the comfort zone for the average person starting training that they are terrified to even try it.

    It is one of the great advantages that a grappler has over someone who has never trained it, that the person who has never trained the ground game is completely freaked out.
  10. TKD Black Belt is offline
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    Keeeeee-Yeah!

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    Posted On:
    3/15/2006 1:53pm


     Style: Whoo-Hoo-Fu!

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Hmm, full contact Chi Sao also seems to be missing from the list. I'd have to say that it is seriously out of my comfort zone. I know I wouldn't want to be caught dead in those slipppers and pants.

    KC - This continuum resembles a chart from a PPCT or PDT text book. You may want to (if you haven't already) pick up one of those for some light reading as they address a lot of the issues that you discuss.

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