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  1. OnceLost is offline
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    Here's looking at you, squid.

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    Posted On:
    1/02/2007 10:33am

    Join us... or die
     Style: Ke?po, MMA ultra-newb

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    INJURE< PENETRATE<ROTATE
    Maybe it's me, but this sounds kinda...dirty. Like something your cellmate would teach you in prison...

    I just jumped at the opportunity, so I said fine np and in the same wind I stepped in and back handed him to the groin, and sure enough a picture perfect groin reaction with little to no effort, and of course He said in the end " I only did that because it was you but in a real fight I would not do that" poor soul did'nt even realise that it was involuntary, He does'nt know that I could do him that everyday the same way and his body would betray him the same way every single time (well until he caught on to me that is)
    So, outside of the environment of a fight (no adrenaline), you hit an unprepared man (no ready defenses) in the groin and the fact that he grabbed his crotch justifies your training methodology?

    There are some targets in training that we obviously could not go all out on but there were some that we could (mainly the nerve strikes) and I remember every time I got hit in my LFC and sapheanous my legs gave out every single time and so did my partner's and every other person in the room, so I'll take a 100% probabilty in a class of 30 odd people over your fancy words anyday fool.
    So you got hit in the laternal femoral cutaneous nerve (surpised, aren't you?) and a vein and your leg gave out. Let me give you a scenario - if you had been at a chi gung seminar and someone was teaching mystic breathing techniques that would prevent the leg from giving out...you see where I'm going with this. The body often reacts in the way we are 'supposed' to react. Read here - Dillman no touch or pressure point knockouts. Now, I'm not saying that strikes to the leg are useless - cops are frequently taught to use a kneestrike to the common peroneal, but there are differences.
    1 - The common peroneal nerve is larger than the LFC, so it is an easier target.
    2 - Cops, generally, aren't taught to kneestrike someone who is hands-down fighting. You use the knee to the thigh to distract the person from the takedown you're about to do. A distraction, however, is not a reflex reaction. The leg is not struck to force it to unlock. Personally, I preferred an open handed slap on the back of the head as a distraction.

    a thumb in the eye is a thumb in the eye and though some may react more dramatically than others the baseline reaction is always going to be the same,
    True, and a thumb in the eye might have a traumatic effect if you can hit the little tiny moving target. More than likely, though, you're going to miss and while you're trying to retract your arm (because you used 150lbs of force), the other guy is going to feed you your teeth.
    unlike the animal kingdom where there are many species of fish and dogs, cats, etc with us there is only one though we may have different faces and names our bodies are made up the same for the most part thats why I can study medicine in Cuba and still know how to patch someone up in China.
    This takes the cake for semi-literate rambling. News flash, education is not the same in various countries. Given a choice between a doctor educated in the US or Europe or one educated in Cuba, I'm probably going to steer away from the Cuban doctor...you're also comparing our physical makeup with our reactions to stimuli and, again, you miss the points that are:
    1 - People may not react the same way to identical stimuli in controlled situations
    2 - People in a fight can overcome a great deal of pain stimuli
    3 - People who fight you may not react to any stimuli (mind altering substances or mental illness)
    4 - You cannot depend on a certain strike or sequence of strikes to end a fight
    5 - The idea of putting 100% force behind every strike you throw without exception is, well, dumb. If you are in a seriously advantageous position (say, rear mount) and can unleash a hailstorm of elbows, maybe 100% force is a workable idea, but not in the first "exchanges" of a fight...
  2. Kungfoolss is offline

    I restore the Balance

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    Posted On:
    1/03/2007 6:23am

    Join us... or die
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    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by curby82
    "Oh how our egos get in the way of peace"

    someone sent him the post that was made of the crayons, and I believe that was made clear in the the letter, wether it was meant for you or not I do not know.
    See, now I'm confused. First you stated, "Here is the Newsletter I was telling you about, and Be honoured because I'm sure he was reffering to you kungfool", now you're not sure? Well, which is it?

    unfortunatly I was not able to pull up the youtube vid that you posted but I can preety much imagine what it looked like and I must say if your trying to base an argument on how hard someone hits the mat in training then you truely are a retard looking for attention and recognition, remove the mat from the equation and put concrete k.
    I realize comprehension is not your strength, but at least make an effort to get on the same page as everyone else here.

    I'm honestly and I mean honestly trying to figure out what part of TFT that you have the real problem with.
    You're hopelessly brainwashed, it's not a surprise you can't see what's so painfully evident to the rest of us.

    Everyone says oh not everyone will react to this and that strike, I remember right after I came back from the seminar and I was talking to one of my friends about it and another one of my friends said thats retarded I would'nt put my hands there because I would have it in a defensive position blocking, and all the bells went off in my head because this is exactly the response we were told to look for when searching for a workout partner, and the solution we were given was to educate them, and I just jumped at the opportunity, so I said fine np and in the same wind I stepped in and back handed him to the groin, and sure enough a picture perfect groin reaction with little to no effort, and of course He said in the end " I only did that because it was you but in a real fight I would not do that" poor soul did'nt even realise that it was involuntary, He does'nt know that I could do him that everyday the same way and his body would betray him the same way every single time (well until he caught on to me that is)
    When my friends daughter suddenly pokes me in the ribs and I flinch, it doesn't have the same effect when I can see and anticipate the intent. However, if you feel more secure with your delusions of grandeur, by all means.

    Whats the moral? Well I've hit lots of people in the groin before and have also been hit there and the day I successfully injure the groin and get no reaction is the day I drop into a crab back and like my own nuts.
    It's amazing. All those groin strikes and all those ruptured testicles....oh, wait, that didn't happen did it.

    There are some targets in training that we obviously could not go all out on but there were some that we could (mainly the nerve strikes) and I remember every time I got hit in my LFC and sapheanous my legs gave out every single time and so did my partner's and every other person in the room, so I'll take a 100% probabilty in a class of 30 odd people over your fancy words anyday fool.
    Yes, we hear the same garbage regarding the effectiveness of systema as well. By the way, in case you can't see the obivious, in the real world it's unlikely an attackers going to just stand there and allow you to hit him without resisting.

    Oh and there was one factor that you left out in your theory of speed + mass =
    and that was a TARGET. A 100lb woman could drop out of the sky on top a 320 guy and not even make him budge
    Are you on drugs or something? A ten-pound weight dropped from a 30-story tower onto a man regardless of his weight would critically injure or kill that man.

    , but put an impact tool ( in this case lets use a knee) and a target (lets say his bladder"very poorly muscled area", we used groin to much all ready) and then drop that woman out of the sky and by golly we got our selves an injury. now I just want you to now picture if you were that guy that got 100lbs suddenly dropped through somone's kness onto your bladder, how do you think your body will move in response to having said injury. yup we all had the same picture in our heads with the body rolling to the side into a semi fetal position, and guess what that was a spinal reflex and it is universal to every single person in the planet.
    Putting aside your moronic explanation of impact force, again, you're assuming a lot that the woman would know how to drop her weight correctly to maximize impact force and second, that the man on the receiving end of the is going to allow it to happen.

    Now everyone has an issue about you cant hit it with the adrenaline pumping etc. but the thing is nothing stops whatever is happening to you at the point unless you injure the guy, so I don't see what the issue is, what ever thought you have in your mind as to how you deal with a given situation no matter how you go about getting there, whether you plan to you his force against him or to throw in combinations or what ever, nothing changes until you injure him, and all TFT teaches you is to immediatly go for that injury and it also shows you the places that the body is easiest to be injured, wether you believe the way in which we choose to strike is ineffecient is your views and understandable but it does not change the suseptability of the weak areas of the human body.
    What is relevant is how you can foolishly believe that all the "weak" areas of the body are open and accessible to being hit by you.

    now never mind the fact that in the mastery program they begin to use the reflexes strategically the fact is if I get that first injury his body will show me another area to injure and I just pick the one that I choose, I don't have to do it the fancy way like striking to the groin and knowing where his chiin and throat will be now going place my forearm there so he could slam his throat into it etc etc. I could simple step in with a forearm to the throat and push him all the way trough to the ground then while he is on the ground stomp the life out of him, nothing fancy about that but it works. TFT is'nt about Tim-inizing anyone it is about using violence but they show you the full scope that the information can be used in. Like They say all the time, if all else falls you can still pick up that rock and hit the guy repeatedly in the head and that will work too.
    *Snoring*

    So FOOL you can talk your semantics all day long but you know as well as everyone else in this room and on the planet that a thumb in the eye is a thumb in the eye and though some may react more dramatically than others the baseline reaction is always going to be the same, unlike the animal kingdom where there are many species of fish and dogs, cats, etc with us there is only one though we may have different faces and names our bodies are made up the same for the most part thats why I can study medicine in Cuba and still know how to patch someone up in China.
    You belong in Cuba, from what I understand, the people living under communist rule aren't terribly bright to begin with. You'd fit right in. As for having the same "parts," funny how some people are faster, while others are stronger, and still some are born with genius level intellects. Seems to me, just pointing out those very basic concepts of human differences destroys this farcical view you have on reality.

    Why do you seek so much attention KUngfool,
    Translation: "Stop lambasting my TFT religion!"

    poking me to enter into a debate about firearm disarment. Should just the fact that I don't particularly like you tell me that you know nothing about said topic. But you sure think that way,
    Translation: ???

    and I guess your use to getting your way in this forum right "do you know who I am" lol my girlfriend says that to me all the time so when you say it its a bit funny.
    I would've thought it was more along the lines of "It's so small." :laughing5

    I know I'm the new guy and may come off very arogant and it is by no means my intention so again I appoligise to everyone whom I may have offended. even you fool.
    You don't come off as arrogant, just stupid. There's a difference.
    Last edited by Kungfoolss; 1/03/2007 6:25am at .
    Kungfoolss, Scourge of the theory-based stylists, Most Feared man at Bullshido.com, and the Preeminent Force in the martial arts political arena
  3. Kungfoolss is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/03/2007 6:41am

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    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by OnceLost
    Maybe it's me, but this sounds kinda...dirty. Like something your cellmate would teach you in prison...
    Funny you should bring that up because the core of TFT is built on the research that was conducted by them on "prison assaults."

    True, and a thumb in the eye might have a traumatic effect if you can hit the little tiny moving target. More than likely, though, you're going to miss and while you're trying to retract your arm (because you used 150lbs of force), the other guy is going to feed you your teeth.
    150 lb of force...it just sounds retarded.

    5 - The idea of putting 100% force behind every strike you throw without exception is, well, dumb. If you are in a seriously advantageous position (say, rear mount) and can unleash a hailstorm of elbows, maybe 100% force is a workable idea, but not in the first "exchanges" of a fight...
    Didn't you know, TFT cultists don't ever miss their targets and always land 100% of whatever strikes they throw. In any event, 100% of power usually equals a lack of control on the part of the fighter and it could mean the TFT guy is simply reacting out of fear. In either case, it is the hallmark of an amateur.
    Kungfoolss, Scourge of the theory-based stylists, Most Feared man at Bullshido.com, and the Preeminent Force in the martial arts political arena
  4. OnceLost is offline
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    Here's looking at you, squid.

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    Posted On:
    1/03/2007 7:57am

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     Style: Ke?po, MMA ultra-newb

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Curby, how does this equation fit into your TFT training or your examples of people falling out of the sky...
    Energy = (Mass x Velocity)^2 / 2
  5. Kungfoolss is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/03/2007 12:50pm

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    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by OnceLost
    Curby, how does this equation fit into your TFT training or your examples of people falling out of the sky...
    Energy = (Mass x Velocity)^2 / 2
    This TFT nimrod doesn't have a clue what he's talking about. In order to drop a knee into an attackers stomach "from above," the attackers has to be laying on his back on the ground. This is why his explanation didn't make any sense.

    As for the need to drop out of the sky to affect this target, it only requires half a foot or less to achieve this goal and TFT acolyte probably isn't even aware how the mechanics of impact and compression forces differ through the use of the knee drop.
    Kungfoolss, Scourge of the theory-based stylists, Most Feared man at Bullshido.com, and the Preeminent Force in the martial arts political arena
  6. OnceLost is offline
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    Here's looking at you, squid.

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    Posted On:
    1/03/2007 1:00pm

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     Style: Ke?po, MMA ultra-newb

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Hmm, curby has been rather quiet recently...
  7. Hanniballistic is offline
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    By the Hoary Hand of Hoggoth.....

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    Posted On:
    1/03/2007 1:15pm


     Style: JKD & Mok'bara

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    So having waded through all this, TFT basically comes down to hitting bits of the body that hurt.

    Hardly revolutionary is it?

    In fact when I subscribed (and quickly unsubscribed) from their newsletter I cited my reasons as "Having trained in MA for 17 years and been an LEO for 8, TFT shows me nothing that I did not already know"

    I wonder if they will reply?
  8. OnceLost is offline
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    Here's looking at you, squid.

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    Posted On:
    1/03/2007 1:29pm

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     Style: Ke?po, MMA ultra-newb

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    From my limited understanding of TFT (as based on the claims made here), it comes down to hitting parts of the body that make said body react in universally predictable ways, with the end intent of injuring your opponent through motor dysfunction rather than pain compliance.

    I'd be interested in seeing TFT perform against a cracked out guy who jumped into his mother's house through a window (that was closed at the time) and began beating the **** out of his family. He was stopped with a taser, but he fought so hard between the 'stuns' that the cops on scene had to keep restunning him. They eventually ran one taser out of battery power and had to transition to a second one before they could get him cuffed.
  9. Tom Kagan is offline
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    Dark Overlord of the Bullshido Underworld

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    Posted On:
    1/03/2007 2:02pm

    supporting member
     Style: Taai Si Ji Kung Fu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by OnceLost
    Curby, how does this equation fit into your TFT training or your examples of people falling out of the sky...
    Energy = (Mass x Velocity)^2 / 2

    It means Curby doesn't quite grasp the gravity of the situation.
    Calm down, it's only ones and zeros.

    "Your calm and professional manner of response is really draining all the fun out of this. Can you reply more like Dr. Fagbot or something? Call me some names, mention some sand in my vagina or something of the sort. You can't expect me to come up with reasonable arguments man!" -- MaverickZ

    "Tom Kagan spins in his grave and the fucking guy isn't even dead yet." -- Snake Plissken

    My Bullshido fan club threads:
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  10. OnceLost is offline
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    Here's looking at you, squid.

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    Posted On:
    1/03/2007 2:08pm

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     Style: Ke?po, MMA ultra-newb

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    "TFT Math Final

    A 145 pound women is falling from X feet. Including the pull of gravity at 32 feet per second per second, how far does she have to fall before her knee drop to the bladder reaches lethal velocity?"
    "Reason is a choice. Wishes and whims are not facts, nor are they a means to discovering them. Reason is our only way to grasping reality -- it's our basic tool of survival. We are free to evade the effort of thinking, to reject reason, but we are not free to avoid the penalty of the abyss we refuse to see."
    - Terry Goodkind, "Faith of the Fallen"
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