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  1. bwdillon is offline

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    Posted On:
    3/18/2007 1:10am


     Style: Oushikoso-Jutsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Hannibal MAP
    An often heard phrase is "if you can't hit me with a 16oz glove on, what makes you think you can hit me with an eye jab?"
    exactly!
  2. AikiZenDragon is offline

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    Posted On:
    3/18/2007 2:02am


     Style: Aikido

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    i had a big disagreement with someone on another forum about this... basically it cost too much, that is one of my warning signs it might be bullshido... it has enough good sounding rhetoric to convince some people, but my opinion after viewing some of the material is it is just a cash cow for the lame minded... thier claims of causing injury, and breaking joints are hard to swallow especially for someone who has been in a fight where you beat the **** outta some guy and they still keep coming... i call bullshido... use your money for something else...
  3. Kungfoolss is offline

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    Posted On:
    3/18/2007 5:52am

    Join us... or die
     Style: I wear pants

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Hannibal MAP

    TFT teaches NOTHING cannot be learned better elsewhere.
    Actually, you're in error here. People here have probably forgotten this little factoid, but TFT is ardently opposed to training on a heavy bag. I can't think of a viable system on the planet that develops striking power without working out on a heavy bag of some sort.

    Road maps are useless if you can't drive in the first place
    In TFT's case, it's a road map leading to nowhere.
    Kungfoolss, Scourge of the theory-based stylists, Most Feared man at Bullshido.com, and the Preeminent Force in the martial arts political arena
  4. Kungfoolss is offline

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    Posted On:
    3/18/2007 5:56am

    Join us... or die
     Style: I wear pants

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by OnceLost
    But what if they're trained as well? An guy from a style that is used to actually 'fighting' has practiced against resistant partners and has made his stuff work...I'd say that would give him an advantage. You can counter with the use of 'illegal' targets (eyes, groin, and throat, primarily), but guess what; the same targets are available to him.
    You can't take this guy seriously. How effective can he be if the system he uses won't even advocate the most basic form of resistance training, heavy bags? He probably hits like a sissy.
    Kungfoolss, Scourge of the theory-based stylists, Most Feared man at Bullshido.com, and the Preeminent Force in the martial arts political arena
  5. curby82 is offline

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    Posted On:
    3/18/2007 11:15am


     Style: Violence

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I thought I answered this question but I see I didn't explain myself well enough.
    The first person to cause an injury and then proceeds to cause further injuries is always the person to walk out alive, meaning it does'nt matter what you know or what I know about injuring people it does not make me immune to violence nor does it make you, because there is no back and forth in a fight when you rupture an ear drum, scratch the cornia or tear the connective tissues that holds it in, break a knee 90 degrees the wronng way, forarm strike to the side of the neck (search youtube for "pimp vs karate") and then continue to cause further injury; now you tell me how the hell do I pratice or worse spar doing this to someone at full speed who is trying to resist me, I would have to hold back because I don't want to kill anyone and by me doing that I give the other guy the opportunity to kick my head off. I thought that was answered in my quote above, but I see whats going on and I'll bite.

    Now I understand that I'm not the fastest guy in the world, definitly not the strongest guy nor am I the meanest and TFT understands this and thats where it's principles come into play. It will be too long for me to explain so I'll put some examples instead even though I know I'll get 100 what-ifs senarios from some retard after.
    There was this guy that took his two daughters to a local bar and there was a skin head there that said someone I guess disrespectful to one of his daughters and the guy decided to have a verbal fight with the guy, and while he was busy mad dogging, the skin oped his tool box of violence FIRST and at the end of it the dad was left with a cervical break that left him a vegetable. (oh by the way this story was posted by TFT practicionter) Now you would ask yourself what would a TFT practioner have done in that situation, LEAVE the bar while trying to look like a total *****, which gives me one of two things. 1- my ego maybe hurt but I'm safe as well as my daughers because by me engaging in the argument is like me asking him everytime I say something "do you want to kill me right now" and then the same when he says something and thats going to go on until (and which it did) until someone says yeah I'm ready to take it to the next level now, but there is no justifiable reason for me to stab someone in the neck for saying something bad about my daughters butt and if I decided to go across there and hit him once and say "let that be a lesson to you" I'd be a dead man when he recovers, so unless I'm prepared to take it to a stage where I leave the guy non functional then I need to put my ego in my back pocket and walk away. 2- by my now walking away while all the while looking like a woos I give him a false sense of security, I also get him a lot closer to me if he wants to carry it on, So that from that distance i can't miss that punch to the throat, but what would have happened if I did it in such a way to let him know that hey I want to fight you right now? I just self selected myself for a whopp ass from a guy that is bigger than me, probably faster than me and hell he's a skin head so I'm guessing he has a life of violence at some level or another so he's probably meaner than me as well, but all that goes away with a hard boot to the groin because now his size and strength are meaningless as he momentarily loses consious control over his body to execute a groin reaction, he's still mean but he can't do anything with it, his will has been trumped by the threshold switch at the top of his spine. and from there I keep injuring him until he is no longer a threat.
    thats why me sparring with a partner does me no good in preparing for violence because noone comes up to you at the ATM and demands your money in thier karate stance,
    The name of the system is called target focus training correct, how do I find the targets on a heavy bag, how do I throw and break a heavy bag's fingers. You are only good at what you practice at, if I practice hitting a heavy bag I'll be very good at hitting a heavy bag. it's great for contioning don't get me wrong it's just the bag does not move dynamically nor does it teach me to move dynamically, because how do you train for it, you hit it once then you back off then you hit it again then back off again, or as we use to practice before in my old school, you do a series of fast hitting techniques on the bag hitting it high and low to represent the average location of his face, groin, legs etc but the thing is, if I do successfully hit the guy with anyone of those moves his body will move away or at least it's orientation will be moving in response to each hit, so for the type of training that we do, it can only be counter productive. which also brings me to the next question, I hope I did not give you the impression that TFT practicioners don't train because we do but it does not take years of training to be able to injure someone and put them on the ground,or years to learn how to break a joint or how to transfer your body weight into your strikes, by training more you can find more challenging and visually more appealing ways of getting it done, if it is that the type of traing requires you to be faster than the other guy to be able to block his punches, or requires you to memorize specifc techniques in response to a specific attack then you will litterally need years of practice especially when the instructor is holding back all the "good stuff" for the more advance students(you know what I'm talking about right... next week we do gun techniques and then on your way home that evening wtf you get presented with a gun)

    I can talk all day about the system and I know it won't change anyone's mind on the topic my only hope is that it gets you thinking. Remember the only thing constant is change

    Good day gentlemen
    Last edited by curby82; 3/18/2007 11:29am at .
  6. Kungfoolss is offline

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    Posted On:
    3/18/2007 1:11pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: I wear pants

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Is that all TFT can teach one to do, regurgiate "war" stories and their mystical concept on dealing with violence? For all your rhetoric and drivel, you have clearly avoided the topic concerning the flawed nature of TFT's technique of dealing with a firearm, specifically the field of fire issue. Another point, it doesn't take a lengthy post to state why you twits won't work out on a heavy bag. Here's the thing junior, the way you go on and on about affecting the somatic nervous system you're all hung up on, you'll never be able to pull it off without working out on a heavy bag/muay thai pads/kicking shield/whatever. You simply will not be able to generate the structural power necessary to affect another individual the way you claim because the motor skills of the left side of the brain have not been conditioned to this form of body resistance.
    Kungfoolss, Scourge of the theory-based stylists, Most Feared man at Bullshido.com, and the Preeminent Force in the martial arts political arena
  7. Kungfoolss is offline

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    Posted On:
    3/18/2007 1:18pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: I wear pants

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Here's a novel concept, when you go back to the TFT private forum, plead with reverend torin or any of his instructors to march their way over to Bullshido and defend this system. It's doubtful it would ever happen considering how much of a demigod you folks make those yahoos out to be. Instructor torin is more secure in his position there and unlikely to risk exposure. What does that tell you about TFT?
    Kungfoolss, Scourge of the theory-based stylists, Most Feared man at Bullshido.com, and the Preeminent Force in the martial arts political arena
  8. bwdillon is offline

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    Posted On:
    3/18/2007 1:27pm


     Style: Oushikoso-Jutsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by curby82
    I thought I answered this question but I see I didn't explain myself well enough.
    The first person to cause an injury and then proceeds to cause further injuries is always the person to walk out alive, meaning it does'nt matter what you know or what I know about injuring people it does not make me immune to violence nor does it make you, because there is no back and forth in a fight when you rupture an ear drum, scratch the cornia or tear the connective tissues that holds it in, break a knee 90 degrees the wronng way, forarm strike to the side of the neck (search youtube for "pimp vs karate") and then continue to cause further injury; now you tell me how the hell do I pratice or worse spar doing this to someone at full speed who is trying to resist me, I would have to hold back because I don't want to kill anyone and by me doing that I give the other guy the opportunity to kick my head off. I thought that was answered in my quote above, but I see whats going on and I'll bite.

    Now I understand that I'm not the fastest guy in the world, definitly not the strongest guy nor am I the meanest and TFT understands this and thats where it's principles come into play. It will be too long for me to explain so I'll put some examples instead even though I know I'll get 100 what-ifs senarios from some retard after.
    There was this guy that took his two daughters to a local bar and there was a skin head there that said someone I guess disrespectful to one of his daughters and the guy decided to have a verbal fight with the guy, and while he was busy mad dogging, the skin oped his tool box of violence FIRST and at the end of it the dad was left with a cervical break that left him a vegetable. (oh by the way this story was posted by TFT practicionter) Now you would ask yourself what would a TFT practioner have done in that situation, LEAVE the bar while trying to look like a total *****, which gives me one of two things. 1- my ego maybe hurt but I'm safe as well as my daughers because by me engaging in the argument is like me asking him everytime I say something "do you want to kill me right now" and then the same when he says something and thats going to go on until (and which it did) until someone says yeah I'm ready to take it to the next level now, but there is no justifiable reason for me to stab someone in the neck for saying something bad about my daughters butt and if I decided to go across there and hit him once and say "let that be a lesson to you" I'd be a dead man when he recovers, so unless I'm prepared to take it to a stage where I leave the guy non functional then I need to put my ego in my back pocket and walk away. 2- by my now walking away while all the while looking like a woos I give him a false sense of security, I also get him a lot closer to me if he wants to carry it on, So that from that distance i can't miss that punch to the throat, but what would have happened if I did it in such a way to let him know that hey I want to fight you right now? I just self selected myself for a whopp ass from a guy that is bigger than me, probably faster than me and hell he's a skin head so I'm guessing he has a life of violence at some level or another so he's probably meaner than me as well, but all that goes away with a hard boot to the groin because now his size and strength are meaningless as he momentarily loses consious control over his body to execute a groin reaction, he's still mean but he can't do anything with it, his will has been trumped by the threshold switch at the top of his spine. and from there I keep injuring him until he is no longer a threat.
    thats why me sparring with a partner does me no good in preparing for violence because noone comes up to you at the ATM and demands your money in thier karate stance,
    The name of the system is called target focus training correct, how do I find the targets on a heavy bag, how do I throw and break a heavy bag's fingers. You are only good at what you practice at, if I practice hitting a heavy bag I'll be very good at hitting a heavy bag. it's great for contioning don't get me wrong it's just the bag does not move dynamically nor does it teach me to move dynamically, because how do you train for it, you hit it once then you back off then you hit it again then back off again, or as we use to practice before in my old school, you do a series of fast hitting techniques on the bag hitting it high and low to represent the average location of his face, groin, legs etc but the thing is, if I do successfully hit the guy with anyone of those moves his body will move away or at least it's orientation will be moving in response to each hit, so for the type of training that we do, it can only be counter productive. which also brings me to the next question, I hope I did not give you the impression that TFT practicioners don't train because we do but it does not take years of training to be able to injure someone and put them on the ground,or years to learn how to break a joint or how to transfer your body weight into your strikes, by training more you can find more challenging and visually more appealing ways of getting it done, if it is that the type of traing requires you to be faster than the other guy to be able to block his punches, or requires you to memorize specifc techniques in response to a specific attack then you will litterally need years of practice especially when the instructor is holding back all the "good stuff" for the more advance students(you know what I'm talking about right... next week we do gun techniques and then on your way home that evening wtf you get presented with a gun)

    I can talk all day about the system and I know it won't change anyone's mind on the topic my only hope is that it gets you thinking. Remember the only thing constant is change

    Good day gentlemen

    Sorry mate but your wrong. A heavy bag/ makiwara isn't supposed to teach you anything but how to hit hard. It's resistance training for your striking muscles and if you want to hit harder their is no way around this. Also what makes you think you're going to cause a NINJURY before a seasoned criminal can?
  9. Hanniballistic is offline
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    By the Hoary Hand of Hoggoth.....

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    Posted On:
    3/18/2007 11:05pm


     Style: JKD & Mok'bara

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I dealt with a crime victim once who was in a bar in the city centre minding hsi own business. A man walked in (mentally disturbed as it happens) and shot him in the eye with a high powered air pistol

    In TFT terms, this would be a "wow, eye strike deadly as hell" - And I 100% gurantee that not a single TFT guy would be able to strike an eye faster or harder than an air pellet.

    However, herein lies the problem. The victim not not proceed to capitulate in fear or pain - he instead chased the guy out of the bar and proceeded to beat twelve shades of **** out of him.

    The TFT system states that this should not have happened becxaise he was hit with one of these deadly violent strikes - reality dictates that TFT is talking out of its arse. I have seen people who have been stabbed, kicked in the bollocks, glassed, shot and in one case hit with lumps of wood so hard they lost three pints of blood. Yet none of them stopped fighting.

    Stay in your little TFT bubble where violence follows rules and attackers do what they are theoretically supposed to - and I hope you are never put in a position where you or your family need to have you rely on TFT.

    Sugar pedestals like the one you have constructed all melt when the rain comes down - you lack of experience shows through in your posts (and that is not meant nastily) but all is not lost. You just need to realise that these quick-fix courses are just bollocks and that others with far nore experience and ability than you recognise that fact. You would do well to heed our advice - however it is delivered on these boards it is well meant.
  10. OnceLost is offline
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    Here's looking at you, squid.

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    Posted On:
    3/19/2007 7:21am

    Join us... or die
     Style: Ke?po, MMA ultra-newb

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Now I understand that I'm not the fastest guy in the world, definitly not the strongest guy nor am I the meanest and TFT understands this and thats where it's principles come into play.
    So...I am Phil Elmore and I approve this message?

    Incidentally, I don't believe the story about the guy who brings his DAUGHTERS to a bar with a skinhead in it. Either there is something more to the story or it's complete BS.

    And I've done the "forearm to the side of the neck" that you describe in sparring. And had it done to me.
    "Reason is a choice. Wishes and whims are not facts, nor are they a means to discovering them. Reason is our only way to grasping reality -- it's our basic tool of survival. We are free to evade the effort of thinking, to reject reason, but we are not free to avoid the penalty of the abyss we refuse to see."
    - Terry Goodkind, "Faith of the Fallen"

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