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  1. cyrijl is offline
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    Posted On:
    3/14/2007 8:57am

    supporting member
     Style: BJJ, MT, Yoga

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I watched the 'free fighting' vid clip. This is the lamest **** i have seen in quite some time.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nOyE6aQ6qKE

    Why would I need to formulate an argument. It speaks for itself.

    Resistance? NO
    Speed? NO
    Force? NO

    Choreographed? YUP
    Silly? YUP
    Compliance? YUP

    How does this differ from aikido?
    There is no cheating, there is only jiu-jitsu.
  2. Hanniballistic is offline
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    By the Hoary Hand of Hoggoth.....

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    Posted On:
    3/14/2007 9:34am


     Style: JKD & Mok'bara

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by curby82
    what the hell is wrong with these TFT people who think they can teach me how to injure someone in a weekend, don't they know it takes a degree in rocket science and years of practice to learn how to hurt someone, thats why only criminals do it effeciently cause they are smart and they sit on the block taking courses in knife.....*snip*
    First off, welcome to the boards - it is nice to have representatives of discussed systems turning up as long as they can string two sentences together.

    Secondly, that clip is appallingly bad, not to mention dangerous. If that is an example of how you deal with a weapom - and it must be or it would not be on the tape - then the entire system mst be thrown into question, or at the very least raise an eyebrow.

    I like theories - but that is all they are. You CANNOT say "If you hit here this will happen". Anyone who says otherwise is a damn liar. True there is a sense of probability ("I kicka your nutz, you falla to da floor") but what you are failing to address is what happens when your technique fails.

    TFT appears to take no account of positive mindset, altered state or physical immunity. The "chain of strikes" school of thought falls down as soon as the first one fails. In this sense it is just Kyoshu-Jitsu all dressed up for the new millenium.

    I am genuinely interested in fleshing out this discourse, so a little about your background might be useful.

    What arts have you studied?
    What Grade/How long?
    What is your combative experience?
    How do you drill your TFT? (Any pressure testing?)
    How old are you?

    I await your reply with polite interest
  3. Hanniballistic is offline
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    By the Hoary Hand of Hoggoth.....

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    Posted On:
    3/14/2007 9:35am


     Style: JKD & Mok'bara

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by cyrijl

    How does this differ from aikido?
    No Magic Pants?

    It is interesting to note that a "passive" method such as Aikido and an "aggressive" method such as TFT (well, it claims to be) use similar levels of partner compliance.

    I can understand it more from Aikido, (which at least can use the argument about "spiritual growth") but in a system that is supposedly "teh d3adly" it is unforgivable
    Last edited by Hanniballistic; 3/14/2007 9:38am at .
  4. bwdillon is offline

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    Posted On:
    3/14/2007 9:40am


     Style: Oushikoso-Jutsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    You have to watch their explanations

    You're pulling this out of context they never claim to free spar or anything. If you watch their outrageously priced DVD's they explain that this is just a training drill. It's not defence it's offence so there are no realistic attacks (they don't work from an attack). It isn't a martial art but more like a basic training sort of thing that someone can learn quickly and become better prepared. As I mentioned before their unarmed and some of their armed stuff does work but it's not designed to go up against a skilled martial artist who is squaring off against you. It teaches you how to cripple or kill you average thug without becoming a good fighter, which takes a considerable amount of time for most people. Do I disagree with some of the things they do? Sure, I don't like their gun defence, I don't like most of their knife defence, and I don't like how they claim that their techniques work every time. But those things aside this programme isn't really that bad and I would recommend it to someone who had no interest in pursuing martial arts or sport fighting but wanted to learn how to protect themselves in a short period of time.
  5. Hanniballistic is offline
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    By the Hoary Hand of Hoggoth.....

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    Posted On:
    3/14/2007 10:02am


     Style: JKD & Mok'bara

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by bwdillon
    You're pulling this out of context they never claim to free spar or anything. If you watch their outrageously priced DVD's they explain that this is just a training drill. It's not defence it's offence so there are no realistic attacks (they don't work from an attack).
    1)If they do not spar they are just LARPing at combat.
    2)If they don't work from an attack they are by definition the instigators and therefore offenders - if they do not practive against a technique they will lose when someone launches one at them - period.
    3)A drill is designed to prepare you for the real thing - your argument is therefore logically flawed
    4) This clip still really, really sucks

    Quote Originally Posted by bwdillon
    It isn't a martial art but more like a basic training sort of thing that someone can learn quickly and become better prepared.
    That is total crap - anyone who wants to learn how to defend themselves without learning a cohesive system needs to get a dog, a gun or run very fast.

    Quote Originally Posted by bwdillon
    As I mentioned before their unarmed and some of their armed stuff does work but it's not designed to go up against a skilled martial artist who is squaring off against you. It teaches you how to cripple or kill you average thug without becoming a good fighter, which takes a considerable amount of time for most people.
    So they have a "magic secret" then? Bollocks. They are selling snake oil to the masses.
    Your argument reads like a press release and has no merit. You cannot be a "good" fighter (whatever that means) without being able to fight. If you cannot fight you will not be able to defend yourself

    Quote Originally Posted by bwdillon
    Do I disagree with some of the things they do? Sure, I don't like their gun defence, I don't like most of their knife defence, and I don't like how they claim that their techniques work every time.
    So that is pretty much their whole syllabus then isn't it?

    Quote Originally Posted by bwdillon
    But those things aside this programme isn't really that bad
    You mean apart from the fact you think the whole thing sucks and will probably get you maimed it isn't that bad?

    Quote Originally Posted by bwdillon
    and I would recommend it to someone who had no interest in pursuing martial arts or sport fighting but wanted to learn how to protect themselves in a short period of time.
    I would recommend they learn a proper combat system and stop wasting time with "magic beans".

    From what background or positio do you make this endorsement
  6. cyrijl is offline
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    Posted On:
    3/14/2007 10:09am

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     Style: BJJ, MT, Yoga

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    ditto to hannibal. no need to be redundant.
    There is no cheating, there is only jiu-jitsu.
  7. OnceLost is offline
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    Here's looking at you, squid.

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    Posted On:
    3/14/2007 10:21am

    Join us... or die
     Style: Ke?po, MMA ultra-newb

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Thirded, with one addition - how do you know your 'average street thug' has no fighting experience? I would argue that your average thug understands about the reality of a fight than most martial artists who've never sparred full contact.
    "Reason is a choice. Wishes and whims are not facts, nor are they a means to discovering them. Reason is our only way to grasping reality -- it's our basic tool of survival. We are free to evade the effort of thinking, to reject reason, but we are not free to avoid the penalty of the abyss we refuse to see."
    - Terry Goodkind, "Faith of the Fallen"
  8. bwdillon is offline

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    Posted On:
    3/14/2007 1:40pm


     Style: Oushikoso-Jutsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Ok I'm having a really hard time expressing myself (I've been up for a couple of days). I'm not saying that I believe all the stuff they do is great but what mean is this is a crash course. They are teaching you the basics of how to hurt somebody, It's not really a complete martial art. How can you free spar if your only learning how attack people's weak spots? Some of the things are possible but who wants to have that shite done to them at full speed? SO they bend over when someone pops them in the nuts instead of makeing the guy really pop them in the jewels repeatedly. I agree there should be some free sparing with rules just to get them used to being hit hard and making things work against a resistant attacker.

    "That is total crap - anyone who wants to learn how to defend themselves without learning a cohesive system needs to get a dog, a gun or run very fast."
    I agree with you, that would be the more reasonable coarse of action.

    The whole sparing thing is great but it usually just teaches people that bigger stronger people can knock the snot out of you (unless your a more advanced MAer or have a good coach that will stop you and work on what you keep screwing up on"

    I don't do tft but I've been in enough fights to know that most of their principals are good and I'm playing devils advocate here. I think some of their stuff is utter rubbish but I think that about every system I've ever seen.

    I have to get some sleep, I'll be back tomorrow, hopefully then I'll be able communicate without sounding like a total idiot.
  9. cyrijl is offline
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    Posted On:
    3/14/2007 2:04pm

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     Style: BJJ, MT, Yoga

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Ok. Quit now while your ahead

    Just Quit
    There is no cheating, there is only jiu-jitsu.
  10. OnceLost is offline
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    Here's looking at you, squid.

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    Posted On:
    3/14/2007 2:34pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Ke?po, MMA ultra-newb

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    The whole sparing thing is great but it usually just teaches people that bigger stronger people can knock the snot out of you (unless your a more advanced MAer or have a good coach that will stop you and work on what you keep screwing up on"
    Umm, that's generally true...
    "Reason is a choice. Wishes and whims are not facts, nor are they a means to discovering them. Reason is our only way to grasping reality -- it's our basic tool of survival. We are free to evade the effort of thinking, to reject reason, but we are not free to avoid the penalty of the abyss we refuse to see."
    - Terry Goodkind, "Faith of the Fallen"
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