Everything Wrong with the Bujinkan

**sci-mdk** · Posted On: 6/13/2006 5:09pm

muqatil ; thanks for that great post down page 19

What's interesting is that the "feel" of most 'feedback' has an american smell.
( I can hear the "d0h!" allready but hang on for a minute )

The American look on the bujinkan seems and odd one to me ; i also noticed that when i met up with some people from the US over here in europe but also in Japan.
I'll not say that their vision on training is a bad one but maybe some of the "struggle" in this thread might have a touch to that vision/feeling.

A little example ; In the US it's perfectly normal that a dojo is a business that has to be run in order to stay healthy.
It seems that training over here in europe is more a thing on the side ; you'll find the business thing here also but it needs to be found.
Training is in no way a bizz in Japan from the point that i noticed when i was there.

Interesting tought ?

**MONGO** · Posted On: 6/13/2006 7:47pm

Originally Posted by sci-mdk

A little example ; In the US it's perfectly normal that a dojo is a business that has to be run in order to stay healthy.
It seems that training over here in europe is more a thing on the side ; you'll find the business thing here also but it needs to be found.
Training is in no way a bizz in Japan from the point that i noticed when i was there.

Interesting tought ?

That is one of the things that I see is rediculous as well. I think that people should not make a living off of martial arts unless they are very established at what they do. MMA gyms and these gyms that have 400 members that train all hours of the day is fine.

One hour a day doesn't cut it for a full time job.

The BJK honbu is the worst example of this though. There may be 50 people in the small dojo and everyone pays the same fee whether Hatsumi is late / films / talks most of class / has a 45 minute tea break............The BJK has the worst case of McDojoism I have ever seen.

**Doctor X** · Posted On: 6/13/2006 8:46pm

Originally Posted by Kendogg

1. There was far too much Hatsumi worship. I have Jesus.

We can help you with that as well. . . .

. . .

Welcome to the forums . . .

. . . two drink minimum. . . .

--J.D.

**Muqatil** · Posted On: 6/14/2006 6:54am

I actually know of only a few folks here in the US that make a living from teaching or selling stuff.

**Virus** · Posted On: 6/14/2006 7:16am

Originally Posted by MONGO

That is one of the things that I see is rediculous as well. I think that people should not make a living off of martial arts unless they are very established at what they do. MMA gyms and these gyms that have 400 members that train all hours of the day is fine.

One hour a day doesn't cut it for a full time job.

The BJK honbu is the worst example of this though. There may be 50 people in the small dojo and everyone pays the same fee whether Hatsumi is late / films / talks most of class / has a 45 minute tea break............The BJK has the worst case of McDojoism I have ever seen.

A lot of guys inside the organisation know about the McDojoism of their grandmaster but cling to the belief that there is a hidden message in it somewhere. I'm serious. They think there is a hidden message in how grades are given out like candy. :5wow:

**Muqatil** · Posted On: 6/14/2006 7:27am

Originally Posted by Virus

A lot of guys inside the organisation know about the McDojoism of their grandmaster but cling to the belief that there is a hidden message in it somewhere. I'm serious. They think there is a hidden message in how grades are given out like candy. :5wow:

Explain how YOU know this for a fact. Some of us have been around a bit more than you. Some of us would disagree. YOu make some pretty grand statements that are based on your assumptions or you just regurgitate what others have said.

**sci-mdk** · Posted On: 6/14/2006 11:56am

They think there is a hidden message in how grades are given out like candy.

It bites huh?
But it's nice also ; if people want to make fun about it , then it's okay.
If people are serious nutriding on it ( i've seen tons of graderushers ) then it's okay too.
Japanese shihan making fun of those clowns is almost to die for , i would think " do those guys ever wake up? "

But hey ; nutriders and graderushers are everywhere , right ?

**eyebeams** · Posted On: 6/14/2006 2:53pm

Originally Posted by Virus

A lot of guys inside the organisation know about the McDojoism of their grandmaster but cling to the belief that there is a hidden message in it somewhere. I'm serious. They think there is a hidden message in how grades are given out like candy. :5wow:

Strictly speaking, there is a message. It's just a dismal one. It's:

"Your dan ranks mean nothing because I don't hand out real menkyo any more. When I do, people leave me, so I'd rather have 15th dans worshipping my aura than formal lineage holders who can add "ha" at the end of their teachings. I don't give a **** about how good you are because you mean nothing to my line of succession and I have given you absolutely no real legacy in these arts."

***Plasma*** · Posted On: 6/14/2006 2:54pm

Originally Posted by eyebeams

Strictly speaking, there is a message. It's just a dismal one. It's:

"Your dan ranks mean nothing because I don't hand out real menkyo any more. When I do, people leave me, so I'd rather have 15th dans worshipping my aura than formal lineage holders who can add "ha" at the end of their teachings. I don't give a **** about good you are because you mean nothing to my line of succession and I have given you absolutely no real legacy in these arts."

Well put.

**eyebeams** · Posted On: 6/14/2006 3:07pm

This is, I beieve, the crux of Hayes' falling out with/from the organization. Hayes has been handing out traditional-style licenses, which is equivalent to asserting menkyo kaiden in those arts. Now the Bujinkan has all this wackiness about some people hiding their licensing, so Hayes could actually be letting that cat out of the bag about Hatsumi granting him a license, *or* he culd be falsely asserting a license *or* Hayes might be holding Hatsumi to some verbal agreement about belt/license equivalency that Hatsumi would like to see go away after what happened with Tanemura and Manaka. No matter what that case is, Hayes is symbolically asserting that he is in fact head of his own branch.