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  1. whybother is offline

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    Posted On:
    3/22/2006 8:53am


     Style: BJJ

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Dr._Tzun_Tzu
    The ring holds back alot of things, like stabing someone with a hidden shank, or ,choking eachother to death, its not a killing field. I am sure a wrestler or "grappler" could kill just as easy as anything else, but Sports are a different arrangement. Wing et al. has not been playing the sports game very long.
    These "streetfighter" morons don't seem to understand is that while it is true that knives, multiple opponents, sucker punches, foul tactics (fish-hooks, eye pokes, etc.) and these sort of things are precluded from sport fighting, that is for everyone's protection, including the _ing __un "fighter". _ing __un isn't going to fare better "on the street" if I pull a knife or have three buddies with me. The ring makes it a fair fight -- for everyone. And so it becomes a test of fighting skill, conditioning, etc. It is ironic that _ing __un people use these sort of arguments considering that what made _ing __un's "name" were challenge fights on Hong Kong rooftops which had referees, rules (like no punching to the head), etc. which were then reported in HK newspapers (in the 1950s and 60s). Why is it that _ing __un "fighters" can compete on rooftops but not in the ring? Because on the rooftops they were facing other poorly trained, poorly skilled fighters using second-rate styles too (we can say _ing __un was first in the 'slow' class).
  2. Psycho Dad is offline
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    Posted On:
    3/22/2006 10:55am


     Style: BJJ/Boxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Dr._Tzun_Tzu
    fine.
    'cept I live in California. (as in we could get in legal trouble when we hurt our fellow Californians, so sport combat has a few more restrictions then in Brazil..)But I am not gonna argue the merits of your questions.

    Doesn't matter, the point is that there is a setting out there in the REAL world where Wing Chun could've/can use its so-called deadly techinques but they still fail to work in such a setting. If all else, it shows that it's MMA that has had to tone down its game and not Wing Chun.


    Quote Originally Posted by Dr._Tzun_Tzu
    ?It turned into a sport rolling around on the ground with no striking and no shoes allowed?
    I don't get what your saying here.....
    Old school Japanese Jujitsu ended up focusing soley on so called "deadly techniques" which could no longer be practice against a resisting opponent. The "practice" was reduced to either kata or resistent sparring. Judo came along and because the practitioners could practice their techinques as full resistence, Jujitsu ended up being trounced at a Tokyo Police tournament that was determined which art was going to be adapted by the police for trainig.

    The ring holds back alot of things, like stabing someone with a hidden shank, or ,choking eachother to death, its not a killing field. I am sure a wrestler or "grappler" could kill just as easy as anything else, but Sports are a different arrangement. Wing et al. has not been playing the sports game very long.
    Yes, show me a Wing Chun practice video where live blades are used on a regular basis. Furthemore, I'm close to laughing that you're implying that a Wing Chunner is going to outdo any sort of grappler in the choking department.

    No better yet, tell just where the hell are you going with this little line here

    The ring holds back alot of things, like stabing someone with a hidden shank, or ,choking eachother to death,
    When it comes to this choking each other to death, are you talking about this magical situation where both guys are choking each other? Are you trying to insuate that "ring sparring" is going to condition a person to let go of a choke when the other guy "taps out" on the street? No, better yet, tell me just what the cockamanie hell are you trying to say with something like this?
    Last edited by Psycho Dad; 3/22/2006 11:16am at .
    Quote Originally Posted by Newb1 View Post

    B) I could not beat a Judoka with Aikido. I could only beat an Aikidoka with Aikido. I thought that was understook.
  3. Das Moose is offline
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    Posted On:
    3/22/2006 2:06pm


     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Dr Tzun Tzu.

    Let me explain something.

    The reason you tap out in competition, or the referee stops the contest whenever someone is KOed, is because once any of these events have occured, or a situation which forces you to tap, in a "street fight" you would have lost and suffer serious injury or death.

    After you are KOed in a streetfight what is to stop your opponent catching his breath and stamping on your head over and over again?

    If I choke my opponent and he taps out in the ring, he's fine. if i'm choking him and i hold it for 2-3 minutes, he will die.

    If i have an armbar and he taps out in the ring, he's fine. If I have an armbar and i wrench the elbow back or dislocate his shoulder, he's just lost one of his main weapons and is in immense pain. I have already won as there's no way he poses a threat any more.

    Which part of this do you not understand?
  4. MrMcFu is offline

    Badness will not be rewarded

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    Posted On:
    3/22/2006 5:04pm

    supporting member
     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    ^ Sane _ing _unner . . .
  5. Dr._Tzun_Tzu is offline
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    It's pretty beat up, but it is a complete copy....

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    Posted On:
    3/23/2006 1:07am

    supporting member
     Style: EBMAS WT/ Latosa Concepts

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Smeagol
    1) WC = stabing(sic!) someone with a hidden shank?
    No idiot, faceing anyone else on the street may involve a knife, or gun, or who knows. You gonna try to hug someone who may have a knife? What you practice should offer reasonable protection from a knife. Sports don't have to restrict themselves this way.

    Quote Originally Posted by Smeagol
    2) WC has chokes?
    Yes, several.

    Quote Originally Posted by Smeagol
    3) you don't need to choke eachother to death, choking them 'till he passes out is really enough, or you know, you could tap right before you pass out, because you know you're already defeated. hell, what about tapping out before he breaks your arm, that'd be neat! that way you can fight/train again pretty soon, and you still know who would have won.
    Fine, wasn't disagreing that. Sounds like the same concept behind Chi Sau, don't have to smash eachother full power to see who has a better chance at winning....

    Quote Originally Posted by Smeagol
    why am i talking about grappling while discussing _ing _un? _O
    Because WT has Grappling ofcoarse...:eusa_ange

    Which part did you guys not understand,...reread what I posted...

    You guys misread my statement. I am not gonna tackle or lean out on my front foot for power in the real world because the other guy might have a knife. Sports allow you not worry about lethal intent from the other guy. This lets you perfect structures specific to the rule set. WT hasn't had very llong to perfect these things, and your not gonna see any go out unqualified and lose either....

    I was also saying exactly that I realize a Judoka could choke me out or toss me on my skull on the cement. Reread what I wrote, and drop the prejudice...
  6. bran sao is offline

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    Posted On:
    3/23/2006 7:17pm


     Style: BJJ + Muay Thai n00b.

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by EMP
    The thing I often wonder about strikers vs grapplers is... why do most strikers not attack while the grappler's coming for the takedown, like this guy here did? Maybe a knee to the head if he's coming in straight. Grapplers are often all open when doing takedown...
    You've obviously never been taken down.
  7. It is Fake is offline
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    Posted On:
    3/23/2006 7:29pm

    staff
     Style: xingyi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Dr._Tzun_Tzu
    Sports allow you not worry about lethal intent from the other guy. This lets you perfect structures specific to the rule set. WT hasn't had very llong to perfect these things, and your not gonna see any go out unqualified and lose either....
    Chi Sau has a rule set also, I don't see your point. You are advocating your training while denigrating another style's, when both have rules. WTF??

    I enjoy reaidng your posts because you don't apply the same logic to yourself.
  8. Dr._Tzun_Tzu is offline
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    It's pretty beat up, but it is a complete copy....

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    Posted On:
    3/23/2006 9:37pm

    supporting member
     Style: EBMAS WT/ Latosa Concepts

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    So you wanna have a Chi Sau contest?

    Chi Sau is designed strictly to safely practice WT, it is not a Contset or sport. A Chi Sau Tournament was posted on here a few weeks ago and it got no understanding. They mocked the chest protectors but never bothered to wonder why would they want to protect the ribs over the heart?

    Sport MMA has IT'S OWN RULESET.
  9. Tom Kagan is offline
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    Dark Overlord of the Bullshido Underworld

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    Posted On:
    3/23/2006 10:05pm

    supporting member
     Style: Taai Si Ji Kung Fu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Dr._Tzun_Tzu
    So you wanna have a Chi Sau contest?

    Chi Sau is designed strictly to safely practice WT, it is not a Contset or sport. A Chi Sau Tournament was posted on here a few weeks ago and it got no understanding. They mocked the chest protectors but never bothered to wonder why would they want to protect the ribs over the heart?

    Sport MMA has IT'S OWN RULESET.

    If you are challenging me to such a contest, then yeah, sure. Why not?


    Chest protectors are for pussies. That goes double in ChiSao.
  10. Goju - Joe is offline
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    I am a Ninja bitches!! Deal with it

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    Posted On:
    3/23/2006 10:10pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Improv comedy

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Dr._Tzun_Tzu
    So you wanna have a Chi Sau contest?

    Chi Sau is designed strictly to safely practice WT, it is not a Contset or sport. A Chi Sau Tournament was posted on here a few weeks ago and it got no understanding. They mocked the chest protectors but never bothered to wonder why would they want to protect the ribs over the heart?

    Sport MMA has IT'S OWN RULESET.
    I posted that. And it wasn't the fact they were wearing chest protectors that was silly, but that they were doing a form of competition in which they were not generating anywhere near enough force to need that type of protection.

    Not even close.

    Anyone who thinks that level of contact merited wearing a chest protector is delusional.
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