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  1. GRAB MY WRIST is offline

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    Posted On:
    3/14/2006 3:25am


     Style: Jabs & Cross Kung Fu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I am pretty confused VIRUS. The above pics are pretty standard aikido. How is it disastrous? Or you meant to show that it is disastrous to the uke (receiver) as if, when they are not good at complying, it will be disasrously PAINFUL for them yes? If that is what you mean... then I agree totally.
  2. Virus is offline
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    Posted On:
    3/14/2006 5:56am

    Join us... or die
     Style: Judo

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    The majority of these pics are disaster becuase they are pics if ukes throwing themselves to the floor while the tori perfromes some slight body movement. You can tell that's happening by the blur around the uke, while the tori has none.

    Look at this one, the guy is clearly continuing to run PAST Ueshiba.


    I mean, running at someone then falling over as a method of learning self defence. It's the most
    ridiculous thing I've ever heard. These pics show that the criticisms we level at the bulk of aikido schools out there are valid.
    Last edited by Virus; 3/14/2006 5:59am at .
  3. GRAB MY WRIST is offline

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    Posted On:
    3/14/2006 11:48pm


     Style: Jabs & Cross Kung Fu

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Virus
    The majority of these pics are disaster becuase they are pics if ukes throwing themselves to the floor while the tori perfromes some slight body movement. You can tell that's happening by the blur around the uke, while the tori has none.

    I mean, running at someone then falling over as a method of learning self defence. It's the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. These pics show that the criticisms we level at the bulk of aikido schools out there are valid.
    Thanks Virus.. now I see your point. In your post #40, last picture, I see a the woman putting on a pretty decent ude grami on the uke. That is why I am wondering what is so disasterous abt it and assume that you were meant to say that it was disastrous for the Uke. But anyway, now I see your point.

    P/s from a the point of fun factor... it is quite fun to actually run at someone like those in the pics and get thrown on the floor... weeeeeeeeee (think of amusement ride at the dojo)

    M. Ueshiba at those age have soften up. I guess when you and I are at 80 years old, we would be very happy not to depend on walking frames and adult diapers... what's more throwing people around like him. I say, give the man a break.

    If you want to talk about martial prowess, we have to look at his pics when he is in his 40's or 50's or pics of Gozo Shioda. They are closer to martial aikido than those pics you posted.
  4. Porrig is offline

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    Posted On:
    3/15/2006 2:41am


     Style: Beatyerass

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    At one dojo I trained at I never got picked to take ukemi for the teacher because I simply refused to fall down the few times he tried to throw me. All of those dumb fucking minimal touch throws you can just walk away from.
  5. GRAB MY WRIST is offline

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    Posted On:
    3/15/2006 3:10am


     Style: Jabs & Cross Kung Fu

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Porrig
    At one dojo I trained at I never got picked to take ukemi for the teacher because I simply refused to fall down the few times he tried to throw me. All of those dumb fucking minimal touch throws you can just walk away from.

    Hmmm, porrig, you have to put these blanket statement in context. What sort of dojo is that? One should realise that aikido dojo comes in many flavour... from the ultra soft and zen like Ki-society aikido to the militaristic Yoshinkan to the collegiate physical education type (Tomiki-ryu). Again without context, your statement borders on trolling (sorry for I can't think of of a better word).
  6. Cassius is online now
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    Posted On:
    3/15/2006 3:35am

    supporting memberforum leader
     Style: Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by GRAB MY WRIST
    Hmmm, porrig, you have to put these blanket statement in context. What sort of dojo is that? One should realise that aikido dojo comes in many flavour... from the ultra soft and zen like Ki-society aikido to the militaristic Yoshinkan to the collegiate physical education type (Tomiki-ryu). Again without context, your statement borders on trolling (sorry for I can't think of of a better word).
    NEVER GIVE UP!
    "No. Listen to me because I know what I'm talking about here." -- Hannibal
  7. Mr. Jones is offline
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    Posted On:
    3/15/2006 3:54am

    Join us... or die
     Style: Being a total psychopath

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Garbanzo Bean
    Just what in the hell does that have to do with anything. I'm sorry I'm just not getting your joke.
  8. Porrig is offline

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    Posted On:
    3/15/2006 6:52am


     Style: Beatyerass

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by GRAB MY WRIST
    Hmmm, porrig, you have to put these blanket statement in context. What sort of dojo is that? One should realise that aikido dojo comes in many flavour... from the ultra soft and zen like Ki-society aikido to the militaristic Yoshinkan to the collegiate physical education type (Tomiki-ryu). Again without context, your statement borders on trolling (sorry for I can't think of of a better word).
    FTR, I practise aikido at an (mostly) Iwama style dojo and prior to that had a number of years in aikikai affiliated dojos. I'm not trolling. There's a LOT of totally **** aikido around.
  9. ONE TWO THREE FOUR FIVE is offline
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    Posted On:
    3/15/2006 9:14am


     Style: Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I trianed for a year and a half in Aikido, towards the end I only really went along because it was almost compulsive viewing, like watching a train wreck almost.

    All the throws I was shown would not have worked on me (And indeed did not) unless I went along with them, in fairness, I don't think I ever heard the phrase "Self defence" used once in the whole time I was there.
  10. eidolic_paul is offline

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    Posted On:
    3/15/2006 6:50pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Aikido (Aikikai Hombu)

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    A lot or all of the pictures are of people taking ukemi, which is the way in which people receive a technique by using a motion that allows them to quickly and smoothly recover from said technique. It is a training tool. No one I know of that studies Aikido actually expects the person receiving a technique in a "real life" encounter to be thrown through the air in a graceful breakfall. In "real life" you'd hear a crack and generally see something very quick and messy. But people seem to 'know' this, in my experience, when they're training, or at least at the dojo I study at.

    A lot of the criticism floating around is from folks that don't have experience either in Aikido or ukemi, so you see pictures and videos but totally out of context because you don't know what the 'point' of the technique in question is, the nature of the training environment, or how someone could think that what they were doing is effective.

    That said, I myself have been guilty of over-committed attacks (and under-committed and utterly incompetent attacks), and everything in-between. Aikido is principle based, IMO, so its ability to work effectively seems to vary from practitioner to practitioner. Some folks seem like they will never be in a place to effectively dissuade a real encounter with violence (I'm probably in this camp), some are perfectly capable of very quickly manipulating my body in various ways I'd rather it not be manipulated regardless of my level of resistence or attempt to get my free arm or foot out to strike or grab them.

    But it's not MMA. It's purist TMA, where I study, and from within the subculture of Aikido it would be seen as more-or-less 'hard' styled. There's no talk of Ki or anything, and though there's a learning curve where you're just learning the principles and going easy, resistence is eventually encouraged until you're supposed to strike with speed/force and really jam or stop whatever technique is being applied (if you can). The mechanics of Aikido work in my limited experience (1.5 years) with no mention of Ki or anything anyone here would lose respect for saying. What I've found is that Aikido is what you do when an attack is initiated and about to strike or grab, and Judo is what happens if you've dealt with the attack too late. Hopefully that makes some level of sense. It's about focusing on learning timing and spacing directly instead of as a side-effect.

    But hey, that's me. I'm not an expert and I'm never going to be a star member of Bullshido -- I'm a bunny, as you might say... I do actually try to live by many of the ideas of this MA I study, which would make some folks here retch, and you won't find me in competitions, and I train in TMA because I enjoy it, period. I'll also never be a subscriber of The Martialist, if that helps!
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