Open the damn guard

**MuKen** · Posted On: 3/08/2006 7:36pm

I dunno, I think it's best to have both a good closed guard and open guard, and then play closed guard first, with open guard to fall back on. I mean, with closed guard, you can still attack, and they can't do anything until they open your guard first, so is that not an ideal situation? You can always open your guard, but it's not always possible to close your guard once it's opened.

I mean, even if you have a great open guard, it's like this: if you have a slingshot and a bat, and some guy is coming at you swinging for the fences with his fists, sure you'd have a big advantage in close with the bat. But isn't it just safer to take some shots with the slingshot before he gets to you, then switch to the bat, rather than charge straight at him with the bat?

I mean, I'm not advocating just lying there and stalling, that would be like turning around and running away in the previous example. I'm just saying, why not attack from the closed guard, from which he can't really do anything back, and then open it if you can't seem to make any headway from closed guard?

Note that my club is primarily no-gi, so that may have some effect on my views.

**Gumby** · Posted On: 3/08/2006 8:32pm

Originally Posted by MuKen

I'm just saying, why not attack from the closed guard, from which he can't really do anything back, and then open it if you can't seem to make any headway from closed guard?

Note that my club is primarily no-gi, so that may have some effect on my views.

Im not complaining about closed guard- I have no problem with it.

Try to visualize what Im saying here- you have a guy in your guard who manages to a good base- you have no chance for attack since his hand placement is correct and hes keeping you from sitting up. You have no collar chokes, no armlocks, and no sweeps.

He decides to try to open your guard- an intelligent fighter (in my opinion) is going to open his guard first so that he can dictate what the next "game" will be (i.e. if he breaks your guard, a skilled fighter will keep you from getting a position for a good open guard game such as feet on the hips, biceps, or butterfly hooks). Its a simple matter of trying to beat your opponent rather than just win the match. Once someone stands, submissions become harder, sweeps become easier, and the reverse is true for someone who stays low and smashes when they pass. Try to beat your opponent, dont just try to "win"

**MuKen** · Posted On: 3/09/2006 11:32am

Ah, I see what you're saying. No, I definitely agree, I'd much rather open my guard when I sense problems coming, rather than have it opened for me. I thought you were saying to open as soon as possible and forget the closed game.

**GoldenJonas** · Posted On: 3/09/2006 12:11pm

Originally Posted by Gumby

Try to visualize what Im saying here- you have a guy in your guard who manages to a good base- you have no chance for attack since his hand placement is correct and hes keeping you from sitting up. You have no collar chokes, no armlocks, and no sweeps.

Exactly. Maybe my closed guard game is not what it should be but the submission options from closed guard are fairly limited, arm wraps/pins/fig/ fours, collar chokes, guillotine, ezekial, some loop chokes. I find that these submissions can be particularly tough to get with anyone who can roll even at a basic level without the added leverage from the open guard.

Like I said though, maybe my closed guard game is lacking.

Originally Posted by Muken

Note that my club is primarily no-gi, so that may have some effect on my views.

I train about half and half (gi/no-gi) and find that I am in open guard more without a gi to provide the added leverage and make up for the loss of grip/control.

**MuKen** · Posted On: 3/09/2006 1:40pm

Originally Posted by GoldenJonas

Exactly. Maybe my closed guard game is not what it should be but the submission options from closed guard are fairly limited, arm wraps/pins/fig/ fours, collar chokes, guillotine, ezekial, some loop chokes. I find that these submissions can be particularly tough to get with anyone who can roll even at a basic level without the added leverage from the open guard.

Keep in mind that playing a closed guard game doesn't mean you don't open your guard to attack, it just means you stay closed while setting things up. I'll still, for example, go for an armbar from closed guard, and in doing so open my guard to push off my opponent's hips.

Generally, I play a closed guard game as long as I am 'winning' so to speak, but switch to open guard with feet on hips if it looks like my guard is going to get opened, or with hooks in legs if my opponent stands up. Offensively speaking, I find it a lot easier to win inside control and break my opponent's posture from closed guard.

I train about half and half (gi/no-gi) and find that I am in open guard more without a gi to provide the added leverage and make up for the loss of grip/control.

Well, I guess you'd know more about the difference than me then, since most of my development has been no-gi. I just thought that gi had more open guard options, with the sleeve grips and things like spider guard and all, but I don't really know too much about that.

**GoldenJonas** · Posted On: 3/09/2006 2:11pm

Originally Posted by MuKen

Keep in mind that playing a closed guard game doesn't mean you don't open your guard to attack, it just means you stay closed while setting things up. I'll still, for example, go for an armbar from closed guard, and in doing so open my guard to push off my opponent's hips.

Generally, I play a closed guard game as long as I am 'winning' so to speak, but switch to open guard with feet on hips if it looks like my guard is going to get opened, or with hooks in legs if my opponent stands up. Offensively speaking, I find it a lot easier to win inside control and break my opponent's posture from closed guard.

Ok, yeah, I'm essentially the same way, except I tend to skip my hips and move to feet on hips or butterfly. I'm more comfortable from there setting up sweeps, reversals, and attacks as opposed to closed guard. All a matter of preference and comfort.

**Blitzkrieg** · Posted On: 3/10/2006 3:23am

My posts were deleted? why?

**MONGO** · Posted On: 3/10/2006 3:40am

Originally Posted by Blitzkrieg

My posts were deleted? why?

Probably, because you admitted to crappling on another thread and were passing technique discussion off in DHS........BIG NONO-forum description

**Shuma-Gorath** · Posted On: 3/10/2006 6:19am

Your posts are being thrown down the well so our forum can be free.

***jnp*** · Posted On: 3/10/2006 1:33pm

Originally Posted by Blitzkrieg

Who the heck keeps doing that? Could the deleter please PM me so I know what the heck is going on?

Fighting the battle against Crappling. If you don't know what you're talking about we strongly suggest you don't post here. Your posts may be edited for humorous purposes if they contain stupid crap

The quote above is all the explanation you need.

I have read some of your posts on grappling. As far as DHS is concerned, you should be reading more and posting less.