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  1. #11
    Meager's Avatar
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by bad credit
    The story of the guy who bragged about his unbreakable guard reminded me of a story I heard from one of my instructors when I did Shooto and we were going back on forth on whether or not dirty fighting worked in grappling. We were both arguing both sides, and switching sides back and forth with different tales. It's been a few years, so the details are fuzzy, but if I remember right, he and his grappling instructor were at a seminar teaching a bunch of cops. One of the cops had done JJ or some other grappling style, and bragged that nobody could wriggle out of his mount. So the instructor says, let me try. The cop gets on top, settles real low on his knees, and lowers his hips, and the teacher reaches up, pulls him close with a bodylock, then bites his nipple. The cop screams and jumps right off of him.
    Elbows to the dome, yo. Biting a sparring partner is a total bitch move and deserves a few loosened teeth in return.

  2. #12

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I don't use closed guard at all. In fact, I feel uncomfortable holding a closed guard. I'd much rather have the guy on my hooks or have an open guard. My friend, Big Dave, who is a 300lb black belt, has a great closed guard and is very good with collar chokes, armbars and sweeps from there. Unfortunately, he also has a great open guard so if you do manage to open his guard there's still a lot to contend with.

    For most people though, I see it as stalling because they're too scared to open up and give the guy a chance. The problem with that approach though is that you never get any good with your open guard. Personally, I like having the guy move around and I'm very comfortable with the guy trying to pass standing or on his knees as I can use my De La Riva, Open Guard, Butterfly Guard, Spider Guard and X-Guard all well and don't really mind which one I'm using. I think I'd rather train myself so that I'm comfortable everywhere on the ground, and not just when the guy is in my closed guard.

  3. #13
    SuperGuido's Avatar
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Meager
    Elbows to the dome, yo. Biting a sparring partner is a total bitch move and deserves a few loosened teeth in return.
    I agree, and I think ANY type of "Dirty Trick" during friendly randori (or even competitive randori) is complete and utter ego bullshit. Resorting to eye gouges, nipple twists, ear pulls, rib grinds, nut squashing, etc... essentially screams to your opponent, "I can't do anything requiring skill, so I'm going to cheat!"

    That being said, when teaching a seminar for Law Enforcement, I think the instructor had a very valid point. Crack heads and meth'd out junkies aren't going to play fair, and a police officer needs to be aware of such tricks because biting/gouging/poking techniques are easy and known by everyone.

    Please don't take this as a "Sport vs Street" comment. Even though the police officer was foiled because he had a "Sport Grappling" mentality and fell prey to a "Dirty Trick", the truth is that his vulnerability could probably be fixed relatively quickly by a simple adjustment to his already developed sport game. If the officer with the "Unbeatable Mount" simply put some effort into compressing his opponent's face into the ground or employed a baton across the throat, then his opponent would probably have a much more difficult time biting his nipple.

  4. #14
    jnp's Avatar
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by JohnnyS
    I don't use closed guard at all. In fact, I feel uncomfortable holding a closed guard. I'd much rather have the guy on my hooks or have an open guard.

    For most people though, I see it as stalling because they're too scared to open up and give the guy a chance. The problem with that approach though is that you never get any good with your open guard. Personally, I like having the guy move around and I'm very comfortable with the guy trying to pass standing or on his knees as I can use my De La Riva, Open Guard, Butterfly Guard, Spider Guard and X-Guard all well and don't really mind which one I'm using. I think I'd rather train myself so that I'm comfortable everywhere on the ground, and not just when the guy is in my closed guard.
    What he said. At my instructor's dojo everyone above a six month white belt trains open guard.
    Shut the hell up and train.

  5. #15

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I'll open for sweeps, but other than that I keep it closed, I'm not comfortable working with it open too much yet. In the few competitions I've been to slamming your opponent is not allowed so a lot of people, especially at beginner levels, won't open it even if the guy stands up. But from a self defense perspective if the guy starts to stand up you've got to open it or risk being slammed into the pavement.

  6. #16
    Cassius's Avatar
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by jnp
    What he said. At my instructor's dojo everyone above a six month white belt trains open guard.
    One thing I do not like about my school is that open guard is not emphasized enough unless you make a point of asking for help personally, or end up working with one of the instructors alone on a particular weekend.

    It's a real shame, as I find open guard to be a lot more "fun" to play.

  7. #17
    Cassius's Avatar
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Blitzkrieg
    I find it fun too. But I get passed real quickly... heh on the plus side you get a lot of work escaping from side control. bwaha
    Do you actually know how to play open guard? Like, do you know the basic positions and have some kind of strategy or are you just winging it? Do you know when and how to use the various grips, hooks, and levers?
    Last edited by Cassius; 3/08/2006 1:43am at .

  8. #18

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    If I close my guard at all, it is just to secure some kind of control over my opponent, be it sleeves, lapel, etc. Once I have that I open my guard and go for whatever sweep (or occasionally submission) I see that is available. I definetly look for a sweep over a submission from the guard because it's easier to be on top.

    If I'm holding a closed guard, it means that I can't control my opponent very well and am basically holding on for dear life.

  9. #19

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Same as Zing, for me. Close up just to secure control, especially if he's moving around a lot. Once I'm oriented, open up, and go to work for a sweep. I am aware that I need to work on my submissions from the bottom, but my hold downs are solid, hence my preferences for sweeps.

  10. #20

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Yrkoon9
    I do not use closed guard anymore.

    I dislike people who stall in ANY position.

    That being said I have seen guys with incredible closed guards who constantly attack. They can pop an armbar or choke on your without every opening their guard. Which makes a lot of sense. The number of submissions for the top guy is fairly limited.

    It can be reversed to say...what about guys who don't do a damn thing inside an open guard? I lost at the US Open to a guy who got a 2pt takedown and stalled to 2 warnings inside my guard. I attacked with a vengence but you know against a guy who is intent on holding you down there is little you can do unless the skill differential is enormous.

    So...back to what I said. I hate stalling. Unless its the last minute of the match and I am winning, kekekekeke~ But if the guy can keep the attacks up with a closed guard than more power to him. I have techniques to open a closed guard. It is just an obstacle I have to deal with.
    I agree, with the stalling part. Control the body, skip the hips (kick out base and/or sweep attempt), skip the hips (kick out base and/or sweep attempt), skip the hips (kick out base and/or sweep attempt)......if your not in a better position start over at step one.

    If I lay flat and "hold guard for dear life" I start to feel like a sloth waiting to get passed or submitted....got to keep moving is my take on it.

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