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  1. lifetime is offline

    Perpetually Punchdrunk

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    May 2004
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    Posted On:
    3/06/2006 2:41am


     Style: TKD, MT

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    My TKD school tends to just follow the whims of the instructor, so we dont usually have a set lesson plan beyond warm-ups-basics-drills-sparring. If there are a few new tricks, or something the instructor wants to stress particularly on that day, he'll just make us drill it over and over and over and then spar, keeping in mind to use those techniques.

    My MT school is a little different, in that because there's very few people there, my entire training session consists of skipping, bag work, and then 5 rounds of thai pads with my instructor who pretty much just tells me what he wants me to do and makes me do it, be it a new punch, or different combinations.
    Rad ki was made up by adolescents. I do not know who created trad ki but it was not made by adolescents. your an ass dude, Im not being a little bitch you are, your past the level of a bitch. Your beyond Bitch! If im easting my time with ki and psi, then your wasting time to prove frauds, and all **** like that! -theoutsider

    Kick boxing is ok, but don't expect do beat a man like Rickson Gracie with that. You need a real martial art. You need Xing Yi Quan. -Emptyflower

    The splits, how ever, have a few martial uses. Doing the splits for me, can put my fists in testical strike range.

    dont ignore the Art for the Martial or else your just kick boxing

    Yes i am serious, there are kicks that can block punches. we have them in Moo duk kwan.
    I want to learn how to use them in case my arm gets broken in a fight.
    what would you have me do? if my arm gets broke, not block punches? -sempi-stone
  2. Rubberduck is offline
    Rubberduck's Avatar

    Registered Member

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    Posted On:
    3/06/2006 5:00am


     Style: Savate

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    In Savate we had the situation like your BJJ. We did what instructor of the day decided. But it changed this year, and is similar to your Kenpo cycle, but we have
    4 week cycles. Starting with hands-->sparring, kicks-->use of kicks/combos in sparring (this week), advanced kicks.
  3. Punisher is offline
    Punisher's Avatar

    Seeker of Truth

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    Posted On:
    3/06/2006 10:55am

    supporting member
     Style: Five Animal Fighting

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    From talking to people here and offline, the "unstructured" approach sees to be the common why to teach martial arts. But is it really the best way? Is there a reason for doing it this way or is it just laziness?

    Imagine what highschools and universities would be like if the teachers just taught what they felt like each day. My brother-in-law and sister are both PE teachers. As part of their job they have to develop lesson plans that lay out what skills they are intending on teach, as well as specific goals and milestones for the students.

    I think it's particularly important for begnineers to have structure and guidance, possibly from a special beginners class or program.

    One school that I think does it right is Modern Combatives, in Berkely CA. Here's what they do for their introductory program.

    Adults - Introductory Classes
    There are no advanced techniques, just fundamentals performed with more sophistication. New athletes as well as those with more experience can train together. The newcomer is being introduced to the fundamentals while the veteran is developing their game.

    See FAQ for required equipment for the listing of required equipment for each class.

    MMAZERO: 1st Session
    During the first session new members are exposed to and walked through the fundamental areas of our Modern Combatives curriculum, Stand Up, Clinch, and Ground. This is done privately or with one or two additional participants. This insures that the newcomer has the full attention of the coach. The student can acclimate as quickly as possible. The coach can then adequately assess the student’s performance level – and adjust the training accordingly. These introductory sessions run concurrently with the MMA101 classes.

    After MMAZERO the new member will be able to participate in the MMMA101, BJJ101, JUDO/BJJ101, and KICKBOXING101 group classes.

    MMA101
    Our MMA 101 class is designed to expose the new athlete to our training methods and develop a solid foundation of physical conditioning. At the end of this 13-session course, the athlete will have a solid grounding in the fundamentals of functional training, and will have acquired those skills in skill-specific drills against a resisting opponent.

    Stand Up: footwork and mobility, basic Boxing, basic takedowns and takedown avoidance.

    Clinch: basic tie-ups, strikes from the clinch, basic swims -- intro to pummeling, basic takedowns and takedown avoidance

    Ground: ground(ed) fighting (mobility, falling and getting up), positional strategy, and escapes.

    Transitions: introduction to the big picture -- how the games fit together

    - 15 Session Course, includes: 1 private lesson, 1 complimentary KICKBOXING101 session, 1 complimentary BJJ101 session, and an end of course evaluation
  4. Ryno is offline

    Senior Member

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    Posted On:
    3/06/2006 11:21am


     Style: FMA, Jujutsu/Judo/SAMBO

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    When I teach FMA, we warm up with basics, then do some sort of basic drill. After that, I pick an area of emphasis for the class, either due to something I noticed during basics, or just something I think they're ready for. I introduce the technique, and make sure that they understand the context for which it might be used. We then work the technique by itself. Once they've got it, we try to execute that technique under less predictable circumstances. This may mean sparring, or using the technique in some sort of freeform give and take drill.

    When I train in jujutsu, we warm up with falls and rolls, then do takedowns or positional work, then the instructor will introduce new techniques. They'll demonstrate them, then we'll practice the techniques by themselves. After that we will try to work on the setup of the technique. Finally, we'll do some randori, and try to incorporate the new techniques that we just learned.

    A good instructor should not always just run down a checklist of a curriculum. Especially any art that is taught in a live manner. There are just too many subtleties, corrections, and counters that are necessary to be taught. It is very beneficial if a teacher can pick up on these limitations, and work to correct them and/or provide other options so that students don't get stuck.

    Obviously some kind of organized structure within the curriculum is a good thing, but teachers should be able to deviate at their discretion. They should also be able to pursue different sub-sections of the curriculum if they feel it necessary. Basics should always be re-inforced, and skills should be added in a logical manner, so that they compliment the existing skillset of the students.
  5. Ming Loyalist is offline
    Ming Loyalist's Avatar

    solves problems with violence

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    NYC
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    Posted On:
    3/06/2006 11:21am

    supporting member
     Style: Judo, Hung Family Boxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    we have an 8 week rotation and we work on the same material over a week's time (we generally vary the applications of the same concept over the week in addition to drilling the basics every time.)

    we have had this system for a year, but now we are going to go to a 10 week rotation because we felt that we were skipping a few key points.
    "Face punches are an essential character building part of a martial art. You don't truly love your children unless you allow them to get punched in the face." - chi-conspiricy
    "When I was a little boy, I had a sailor suit, but it didn't mean I was in the Navy." - Mtripp on the subject of a 5 year old karate black belt
    "Without actual qualifications to be a Zen teacher, your instructor is just another roundeye raping Asian culture for a buck." - Errant108
    "Seriously, who gives a **** what you or Errant think? You're Asian males, everyone just ignores you, unless you're in a krotty movie." - new2bjj
  6. Punisher is offline
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    Seeker of Truth

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    Posted On:
    3/06/2006 11:47am

    supporting member
     Style: Five Animal Fighting

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Ryno

    When I train in jujutsu, we warm up with falls and rolls, then do takedowns or positional work, then the instructor will introduce new techniques. They'll demonstrate them, then we'll practice the techniques by themselves. After that we will try to work on the setup of the technique. Finally, we'll do some randori, and try to incorporate the new techniques that we just learned.

    A good instructor should not always just run down a checklist of a curriculum. Especially any art that is taught in a live manner. There are just too many subtleties, corrections, and counters that are necessary to be taught. It is very beneficial if a teacher can pick up on these limitations, and work to correct them and/or provide other options so that students don't get stuck.
    I think you're right. Running through the curriculm sheet as fast as possible and assuming you've taught your students everything they need to know is one of the worst things you can do. But I also think it is foolish to assume you can adequately teach a new skill, concept, or technique in a single class, especially if the students don't have the proper foundation.

    I'd much rather be part of a school that after introducing something, purposely revisits it to reenforce and refine the original lesson.
  7. Ryno is offline

    Senior Member

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    Posted On:
    3/06/2006 2:41pm


     Style: FMA, Jujutsu/Judo/SAMBO

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Yup. Going over something once doesn't mean that people will get it. Go over it repetitively, and it will tend to sink in better. Then work variations and counters, which will only re-enforce the technique.
  8. Ke?poFist is offline
    Ke?poFist's Avatar

    Enforcer of Northeast Anti-Silliness Department Inc.

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    Jan 2006
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    Long Island, NY
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    Posted On:
    3/06/2006 3:08pm

    supporting member
     Style: Kaju, BJJ, Judo, Kempo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    At my Kempo school we teach a set curriculum of techniques as well, but a students progression is independent from other students. They learn a technique in the air first. Then apply it on a compliant partner to get down the motions. Then they utilize concepts and movements within the technique during an unchoreographed session of resisting attacks. Finally at the end of class, we usually have them spar and see what really works for them.

    At the BJJ school I started training at, the situation seems to be much the same, but I doubt it's because they're unkind towards beginners. What you need to do is go the extra mile and learn through rolling with those better than you. My experience thus far is higher ranks or even other white belts who have been doing it longer than me, are always willing to give advice or techniques to me where they see I am struggling. Usually BJJ schools have open mat sessions before or after classes where you can just go at it, and often times even the instructors will pop in to help you out. I tend to learn one technique per set class, with 2-3 variations on it alongside a counter to it with a variation or two on that as well. From there we drill it over and over, and then we just roll. The only way to learn BJJ and gain in rank is to roll and get better through experience.
  9. Punisher is offline
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    Posted On:
    3/06/2006 4:34pm

    supporting member
     Style: Five Animal Fighting

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by KempoFist
    At my Kempo school we teach a set curriculum of techniques as well, but a students progression is independent from other students. They learn a technique in the air first. Then apply it on a compliant partner to get down the motions. Then they utilize concepts and movements within the technique during an unchoreographed session of resisting attacks. Finally at the end of class, we usually have them spar and see what really works for them.
    At my kenpo school we do things a little different. The "technique" acts as a framework for the instructors, showing them what to teach that session.

    For example if the technique involves getting on the line of an attack, following up with a couple of strikes, and then using a sweep to take the attacker down, we'll work all those separately before putting them together. And I don't mean by the end of class.

    It can be 4 to 6 weeks into a session before the student is shown the sequence of movements put together. By that time, the student is already familiar with the proper timing, mechanics, and strategy of the individual parts and able to apply them in a variety of settings, not just in the prearranged sequence.
  10. roly is offline

    Registered Member

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    Posted On:
    3/06/2006 8:46pm


     Style: judo, karate, jap jj

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    the structured approch: 1 year of training 5 years in a row

    the random approach: 5 years of training

    ^ my personal opinion

    i much prefer the random approach, i ask many questsions and so do most others.
    we get sidetracked sometimes and end up doing armbars when we were starting on chokes , but its fun and we ALWAYS seem to be learning something

    also, if the instuctor notices someone playing with a new move (say someone does a turnover differently to normal), he sometimes gets them to show the rest of the class and play around with it
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