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  1. JohnnyCache is offline
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    All Out of Bubblegum

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    Posted On:
    3/09/2006 6:39am

    supporting memberforum leader
     Style: MMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    probably as long as aikidoka keep coming out of the woodwork in a futile effort to make their peers and art look less full of ****.

    Also, "will schutt" the poster needs to have his identity confirmed somehow, or STFU and GTFH, since he's speaking as a given person and him being that person has been question.


    Mr. Jones: This is the **** that happens to you when you train aikido/name yourself after coutning crows songs. Take a note.
    Last edited by JohnnyCache; 3/09/2006 6:43am at .
    There's no choice but to confront you, to engage you, to erase you. I've gone to great lengths to expand my threshold of pain. I will use my mistakes against you. There's no other choice.
  2. billy sol hurok is offline
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    Welterweight

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    Posted On:
    3/09/2006 8:52am

    supporting member
     Style: age&treachery

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by JohnnyCache
    Mr. Jones: This is the **** that happens to you when you train aikido/name yourself after coutning crows songs. Take a note.
    Well, he could have named himself after a Bob Dylan song:

    Because something is happening here
    But you don't know what it is
    Do you, Mister Jones?
    --Ballad Of a Thin Man
    http://www.bobdylan.com/songs/thinman.html

    Nah, too rich in irony.

    Or, after the Beatles' mention of the Dylan character:

    The eagle picks my eye,
    The worm he licks my bone,
    I feel so suicidal,
    Just like Dylan's Mr. Jones
    --Yer Blues
    http://www.iamthebeatles.com/article1027.html

    Closer; it's full of teen-like angst.

    Anyway, I might well have stepped off and not looked back too.

    Still, I certainly judge a school or teacher (in part) by the students -- not just their skill, but their training attitude too. The school's atmosphere, if you will, comes from the top down.

    And while I don't know/care what "really" happened in this instance -- can't be bothered reading the offending posts -- I can imagine a situation in which a student would be asked to leave, based on behavior outside the school.

    Say you have a student, and you find out that he's using skills learned at your school in order to beat up on others. (Let's even take your potential legal liability out of the equation, just for the sake of argument.) Would you not ask him to reform or leave?

    Say that the student isn't actually fighting outside the school, but it's brought to your attention that he's bullying/threatening others. Would you not feel obliged to address the situation? Can you not imagine punting a student who's too much of an incorrigable asshole?

    Again, I'm not saying that Mr. Jones is that hypothetical incorrigable asshole (even if his credibility has been impeached somewhat). I have no stake in this battle. But at least the school cares about something more than money.* Give them that much.

    It's just an Anti-McDojo.


    *Apart from whatever prepayment/debiting drama exists . . . it sometimes takes a while to get those auto-debit/rollover things straightened out.
  3. It is Fake is offline
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    Posted On:
    3/09/2006 10:11am

    staff
     Style: xingyi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Than you.

    I love when people reenforce my point about lying.

    And while I don't know/care what "really" happened in this instance --can't be bothered reading the offending posts -- I can imagine a situation in which a student would be asked to leave, based on behavior outside the school.

    Wait let me get this straight. You didn't read any posts but, you know about the alleged extra debit added to his fathers card.

    Then you pull this story out of your ass about hypothetical bullying.

    Fine he should be kicked out.

    Why not talk about this alleged story beforehand?

    Why imply he wasn't part of your org. but part of the school? His teacher is a Jiyushinkai 4th Dan who taught Mr. Jones.

    So, how can Mr. Jones never be a member after 4 month?.

    Why say he didn't write apology letters then play word games and say he was asked not ordered?
  4. billy sol hurok is offline
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    Posted On:
    3/09/2006 11:59am

    supporting member
     Style: age&treachery

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by It is Fake??
    Wait let me get this straight. You didn't read any posts but, you know about the alleged extra debit added to his fathers card.
    No no, I've read this whole thread. I just meant that I hadn't read the offending posts (on Aikiweb?) that started the whole ruckus between Mr. Jones and his instructors. Sorry if I didn't make that clear.

    Quote Originally Posted by It is Fake??
    Then you pull this story out of your ass about hypothetical bullying.
    Well, I made it hypothetical so as to divorce it from the (disputed) facts in this case. Seems to me I've seen people write that a student's behavior outside the dojo doors aren't his teachers' business. (Generally, IIRC, on threads about whether MA instruction should include any moral/ethical lessons, or components.) So my hypo was just a way of saying that I can imagine a scenario where extracurricular behavior might have an effect on a student's standing in a MA school, that's all.

    I did not mean to suggest that any of my hypothetical scenarios had anything to do with the facts in this case. Sorry if I didn't make that clear.

    Again, I don't know any of the people involved. I am not an instructor. I do not play one on TV. But putting myself in the position of an instructor, I can imagine a (hypothetical!) student whom I'd deem too much of an asshole to teach.

    What would get him to that "asshole" status? Well, reasonable people could differ on that. There's a whole sliding scale of objectionable behavior:

    1/ Physical violence toward others

    2/ Physical intimidation of others

    3/ Abusiveness

    4/ Disrespecting the instructor/school

    5/ Disrespecting another instructor/school

    6/ Spitting on the sidewalk

    If you were an instructor, you might tolerate misbehavior up to Level 2; another might be inclined to boot out a student who'd only reached Level 4. Everyone draws his own line in the sand.

    In the real world, schools gotta pay the rent, and teachers gotta eat. But they've got to sleep, too.

    In fact, everyone needs to find the balance between what lets him eat, and what lets him sleep at night.

    Sorry for prolonging the agony, wagamichi!
    Last edited by billy sol hurok; 3/09/2006 12:02pm at .
  5. It is Fake is offline
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    Posted On:
    3/09/2006 12:08pm

    staff
     Style: xingyi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by billy sol hurok
    No no, I've read this whole thread. I just meant that I hadn't read the offending posts (on Aikiweb?) that started the whole ruckus between Mr. Jones and his instructors. Sorry if I didn't make that clear.


    Well, I made it hypothetical so as to divorce it from the (disputed) facts in this case. Seems to me I've seen people write that a student's behavior outside the dojo doors aren't his teachers' business. (Generally, IIRC, on threads about whether MA instruction should include any moral/ethical lessons, or components.) So my hypo was just a way of saying that I can imagine a scenario where extracurricular behavior might have an effect on a student's standing in a MA school, that's all.

    I did not mean to suggest that any of my hypothetical scenarios had anything to do with the facts in this case. Sorry if I didn't make that clear.

    Again, I don't know any of the people involved. I am not an instructor. I do not play one on TV. But putting myself in the position of an instructor, I can imagine a (hypothetical!) student whom I'd deem too much of an asshole to teach.

    What would get him to that "asshole" status? Well, reasonable people could differ on that. There's a whole sliding scale of objectionable behavior:

    1/ Physical violence toward others

    2/ Physical intimidation of others

    3/ Abusiveness

    4/ Disrespecting the instructor/school

    5/ Disrespecting another instructor/school

    6/ Spitting on the sidewalk

    If you were an instructor, you might tolerate misbehavior up to Level 2; another might be inclined to boot out a student who'd only reached Level 4. Everyone draws his own line in the sand.

    In the real world, schools gotta pay the rent, and teachers gotta eat. But they've got to sleep, too.

    In fact, everyone needs to find the balance between what lets him eat, and what lets him sleep at night.
    You need to start this in another thread. This thread was started because a kid felt he got kicked out of school for questioning his art.

    Well if this is really Will all this has been proven. The only thing changed was the age. Like that never happens on the internet.

    All your eat, sleep, rent, has nothing to do with an instructor kicking out a student for searching for the truth. Notice there is nothing about bullying, stealing, fighting etc... Everything is vague except the age factor.
  6. Rhamma is offline

    Not over zealous, but just zealous enough. 病気の粗悪品

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    Posted On:
    3/09/2006 2:38pm


     Style: Okinawan Karate

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Jones
    It was the very end of the month so I missed an hour and thirty minutes. But they recently charged my father's account. I haven't set foot in there in over a month. Seriously What the ****? Do these people not expect people to leave the dojo or something?
    Are your dues set up to with draw directly for a checking account?

    If so you may have trouble stopping them without closing the checking account. I have 4 students who were at another dojo that did this before they came to train with me. One had to close the checking account. One was having his account hit WHILE HE WAS IN IRAQ for a year! Another was too scared about what it would do to his credit so he kept paying for 2 years after he left the school. If this is EFC or some other company like it you will have to get your former instructor to stop the payments being withdrawn from your account.

    I will suggest you have your father do this, not because I don't think you are old enough or anything like that, but because it is your father's money. He may have to threaten to get a lawyer.
    Last edited by Rhamma; 3/09/2006 2:47pm at .
    People often tell me that I fail to see the gravity of the situation.
    I see the gravity, and I say...

    Step right up folks and watch me defy gravity!
  7. Will Schutt is offline

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    Posted On:
    3/09/2006 2:42pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Jiyushinkai Aikibudo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    From the forum rules:

    If you are full of ****, pretending to be something you're not, or inflating your experience/credentials, you should expect to be banned.
    I was required to enter my real name when I registered for this forum. If the moderators doubt the truthfulness of any part of my registration or profile, they have the power to remove me.

    No one has tried contacting me outside the forum to verify my identity.


    Regarding the organization vs. dojo membership, it is pretty simple. A new student joins the dojo and pays monthly dues to the dojo. After receiving a certain rank, the student fills out a registration and pays yearly dues to the organization. There is no requirement for a new student to join the organization before that.


    There was an error with the EFT, but it has been resolved and we are trying to contact Mario's father to get him his refund.
  8. Wounded Ronin is offline
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    ...is THE PENETRATOR

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    Posted On:
    3/09/2006 4:42pm

    supporting member
     Style: German longsword, .45 ACP

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Dagon Akujin
    Re-reading over Schutt's posts doesn't look self-righteous or like superior posturing to me. He even said he was sorry for him and hoped he found training that more suited him.

    I think we can all draw the conclusion that Mr. Jones is "being immature" based soley on his actions in this post alone.

    Dagon :XXfish: Akujin
    Schutt asked for a letter of apology, for crying out loud. Do you need any further evidence of his paternalistic self-righteousness?

    I realize that this is probably a matter of interpretation but in my opinion I thought that Schutt was posturing and trying to act sublime and above it all in his posts. Perhaps you disagree based on your reading. This is one of those things we'll have to agree to disagree on since it is a matter of interpretation.

    Lastly, whether or not Mr. Jones is "being immature" is actually beside the point, since the specific (false) accusation being made against him was that he didn't take responsiblity for his actions, which he undeniably did. Making Mr. Jones look immature was just part of Schutt's posturing game so that he could come off as being the wise sensei guiding the foolish wayward student on the internet. But, ultimately, the point is that Schutt lied about Mr. Jones "not taking responsibility" for something. And why would he lie about that? To belittle Mr. Jones and make himself look better; to try and distance himself as much as possible from what Mr. Jones posted.
    ďnobody shoots anybody in the face unless youíre a hit man or a video gamer.Ē - Jack Thompson
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_Th...%28attorney%29
  9. Plasma is offline
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    Posted On:
    3/09/2006 4:57pm

    supporting memberforum leaderstaff
     Style: 柔術

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Will Schutt
    From the forum rules:



    I was required to enter my real name when I registered for this forum. If the moderators doubt the truthfulness of any part of my registration or profile, they have the power to remove me.

    No one has tried contacting me outside the forum to verify my identity.


    Regarding the organization vs. dojo membership, it is pretty simple. A new student joins the dojo and pays monthly dues to the dojo. After receiving a certain rank, the student fills out a registration and pays yearly dues to the organization. There is no requirement for a new student to join the organization before that.


    There was an error with the EFT, but it has been resolved and we are trying to contact Mario's father to get him his refund.

    Oh I am sure someone will come by and bann you shortly. Lurk more, post less.
  10. It is Fake is offline
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    Posted On:
    3/09/2006 5:08pm

    staff
     Style: xingyi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Will Schutt
    From the forum rules:



    I was required to enter my real name when I registered for this forum. If the moderators doubt the truthfulness of any part of my registration or profile, they have the power to remove me.

    No one has tried contacting me outside the forum to verify my identity.


    Regarding the organization vs. dojo membership, it is pretty simple. A new student joins the dojo and pays monthly dues to the dojo. After receiving a certain rank, the student fills out a registration and pays yearly dues to the organization. There is no requirement for a new student to join the organization before that.


    There was an error with the EFT, but it has been resolved and we are trying to contact Mario's father to get him his refund.

    If we say "real Will" that is to leave ourselves an out. You know because "everyone follows rules" on the internet.

    Funny how Mr. Jones asked you to email him right after you posted for proof. Here is your response:

    Quote Originally Posted by Will Schutt
    There is no need to check your email, Mario, this is the real me. I'm not big on lying, either in person or on the internet. You know that.
    Now you are crying because, no one called you outside the forum for verification.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wounded Ronin
    Schutt asked for a letter of apology, for crying out loud. Do you need any further evidence of his paternalistic self-righteousness?

    I realize that this is probably a matter of interpretation but in my opinion I thought that Schutt was posturing and trying to act sublime and above it all in his posts. Perhaps you disagree based on your reading. This is one of those things we'll have to agree to disagree on since it is a matter of interpretation.

    Lastly, whether or not Mr. Jones is "being immature" is actually beside the point, since the specific (false) accusation being made against him was that he didn't take responsiblity for his actions, which he undeniably did. Making Mr. Jones look immature was just part of Schutt's posturing game so that he could come off as being the wise sensei guiding the foolish wayward student on the internet. But, ultimately, the point is that Schutt lied about Mr. Jones "not taking responsibility" for something. And why would he lie about that? To belittle Mr. Jones and make himself look better; to try and distance himself as much as possible from what Mr. Jones posted.

    You aren't the only one with this interpretation.
    Last edited by It is Fake; 3/09/2006 5:13pm at .
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