KUng-fu master block with face in MMA match.

[It is Fake]

I find this astounding. I never thought that I'd see a thread where numerous bullshido members are defending forms/katas and traditional CMA's against the typical, "cut the bullshit, and just train how you fight" type poster a la TBKen.

There are numerous forms in Kempo, and I've gone at it with a few friends of mine who train in various other martial arts as well as Kempo on this topic. The general consensus is that beyond basic conditioning that could be attained through other more effective means, and preserving the "art", forms tend to be rather useless...at least from a fighting perspective. Alot of the techniques and movements derived from a form that serve a practical purpose, could easily be drilled through more direct means.

When I teach forms and katas I make it a strong point, that what they are working moreso than raw fighting ability, is rather a sense of focus and conditioning through the motions.

You are right shouldn't have called you a Mcdojo teacher. I should of said bullshido hypocrite teacher my bad.

[Ke?poFist]

You are right shouldn't have called you a Mcdojo teacher. I should of said bullshido hypocrite teacher my bad.

Your barbs.....they sting so badly... :confused4

So please elaborate because I'd love to hear this. What have I said in these last 2 paragraphs or so, that has given you such insight into what I teach that you feel comfortable not only calling me a bullshit artist, but a hypocrite to boot!? Good word you must be an expert at not only martial arts, but cold readings too perhaps?

So just to let you know where I stand here in, you essentially are calling BS on me for teaching the art I've dedicated a decade of my life to, in a fashion that you feel isn't proper?

[CoffeeFan]

Yes, Omega has a strong CMA backround but trains the way anyone training for a fight would.

[It is Fake]

Your barbs.....they sting so badly... :confused4

So please elaborate because I'd love to hear this. What have I said in these last 2 paragraphs or so, that has given you such insight into what I teach that you feel comfortable not only calling me a bullshit artist, but a hypocrite to boot!? Good word you must be an expert at not only martial arts, but cold readings too perhaps?

So just to let you know where I stand here in, you essentially are calling BS on me for teaching the art I've dedicated a decade of my life to, in a fashion that you feel isn't proper?

Nope I'm calling BS on a person who criticizes us then agrees with us in the same post.

[It is Fake]

Now, here is the hypocritical part of your post.

When I teach forms and katas I make it a strong point, that what they are working moreso than raw fighting ability, is rather a sense of focus and conditioning through the motions.

So here we agree.

For example, horse stance training could be instead done with various kinds of squats. Or as someone said before, the techniques of the style are within the form. Well why not just train the practical techniques in a fashion where your body will develop real muscle memory that you can use in actual combat, rather than just practicing something that's fighting-like.

Here again we agree.

Thing is reading both posts you sound wishy washy. I teach forms but they aren't effecient.

If you feel that way and still teach the forms for conditioning that is BS and hypocrityical IMO. If you agree they are useless why continue to teach this way? Now, if you do it for marketing I understand. You, shouldn't come here shocked because TBK is making generalizations and we correct his misconceptions. He stole STFU and train from Omega and other TMA mods.




So are you going to get off the fence.

[CoffeeFan]

Nope I'm calling BS on a person who criticizes us then agrees with us in the same post.

You make it sound like it's hard to criticize and agree with someone at the same post, it's not that big a deal. For example:

"While I don't agree on the effectivness of some of your techniques (criticizing), your principals of distracting with a strike then going for the takedown was good (agreement)"

"You had the right idea by going for the hipout (agreement), but when you did it you looked like a retarded tutrle attempting to give birth (criticizing)"

"Yes, a hip throw would be good from that setup (agreement), however the fact that your a giant ***** who can barely lift an Ipod means thats impossible for you (criticize)"

Perhaps KempoFist is critical to part some ideas yet agrees with others. I really don't see how that makes him McDojo or Bullshit.

[Ke?poFist]

Now, here is the hypocritical part of your post.


So here we agree.



Here again we agree.

Thing is reading both posts you sound wishy washy. I teach forms but they aren't effecient.

If you feel that way and still teach the forms for conditioning that is BS and hypocrityical IMO. If you agree they are useless why continue to teach this way? Now, if you do it for marketing I understand. You, shouldn't come here shocked because TBK is making generalizations and we correct his misconceptions. He stole STFU and train from Omega and other TMA mods.




So are you going to get off the fence.

I see your point, but I guess now I feel compelled to explain my position/beliefs in a bit more depth.

First of all, I am Kempo instructor, but also consider it my job to teach proper self defense. I teach with practical self defense first in mind for my students, with everything else secondary. Every style has it's strong points and weak points, so a martial art and self defense don't always go hand in hand, hence why we have this site. In classes kids straight up to adults, I emphasize the importance of not only drilling moves and techniques on each other, but also utilizing the techniques you can within free sparring. I do admit many techniques we teach fall into the "too deadly teh spar with" category, so I water them down in sparring to make them applicable on a friendly basis.

As far as katas go, I see them from three different perspectives. From a students view, from a teachers view, and from a business point of view, and the lines between these perspectives aren't always so clean and cut. I stand by what I said in a positive light about forms 110%. They do build focus (and are especially fantastic learning tools for child students with learning disabilities) and they do condition the body in numerous ways.

But just because I agree with that, doesn't mean I feel they are the best way. Just like riding a bike will get me to work, a motorcycle is usually more efficient. Now as a student I train myself however I feel is the best for me and my goals. My goals do not reflect the goals and ideals of every other martial artist, nor do theirs reflect mine. From a business perspective, you realize that students aren't all about to come down to class and hit up the gym to get pumped for full contact kumite. But if forms and kata happen to give them that effective yet easy on the body conditioning and results, then thats great.

I'm not fence sitting, I'm ignoring the sides altogethor and looking at the big picture. I figured if anyone here (especially Omega) had anything else to say about katas and TMA's that I may not have considered it would be of benefit to me.

[It is Fake]

You are right.

The difference is that isn't what TBK is doing.

Sorry, KempoFist I don' think you are BS teacher.


The main thing I find hypocritical is agreeing with TBK's overgeneralization. TBK isn't critiquing TMA's. He is saying that what Omega does isn't TMA. Then he proceeds to define HIS view of TMA fighting.

Then you agree with TBK who, hasn't critiqued anything.

I see your point.

[Ke?poFist]

ahh I see...well no problem. I should be more careful how I word things.

[Gezere]

Yes, Omega has a strong CMA backround but trains the way anyone training for a fight would.

You really want to know what the sad part is?

Omega is more of a hinderance to the CMA/TMA community than help. I didn't realize the problem myself until it was pointed out to me. Both Omega, Ronin, Myself, have championed the effectiness of TMA and for this many of the TMA community will point to us and say, "See see TMA are badass!" BUT they fail to see the second part of "trains the way anyone training for a fight would." Omega does not train like your typical CMArtist. He trains like a combat athelete. They don't see that part and stick inefficient training and not learn since they have someone like Omega to champion them. "Kung Fu is because Omega fights MMA."