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  • Yes, it's better than not grappling

    15 23.08%
  • No, they should be doing 'real' grappling

    44 67.69%
  • no, grappling is wrong anyway

    6 9.23%
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  1. Hedgehogey is offline
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    Tsun-Derrorist

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    Posted On:
    3/02/2006 4:25pm

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     Style: ^_^

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Bry
    I hate to break it to you Garbanzo Bean but Shalin Do has introduced the Ground Monkey form or some such other BS name. So yes they do have ground fighting. I didn't get to see this kata demonstrated because it would have cost $75 a person, but would have loved to check it out.

    Bry
    That's interesting considering that two different SDers with a few years behind them (Qwerty and Cool Hand) at two different throwdowns have shown absolutely no rolling ability whatsoever, excepting the BJJ/MT that Qwerty quit Shaolin Do for.


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  2. Thaiboxerken is offline
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    Genius

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    Posted On:
    3/02/2006 4:36pm

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     Style: Kru-MuayThai,GJJ-Blue

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Crappling won't work on any decent grapplers. It won't work on most guys that are just generally tough. It might and can work on weak little people that have no skill. Then again, so can pure strength.
    "Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities." – Voltaire.
  3. Teh El Macho is offline
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    Senior Member

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    Posted On:
    3/02/2006 5:00pm

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     Style: creonte on hiatus

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Thaiboxerken
    Crappling won't work on any decent grapplers. It won't work on most guys that are just generally tough. It might and can work on weak little people that have no skill. Then again, so can pure strength.
    That pretty much sums it up. I just don't see how crappling will work with a decently tough guy :viking: :viking: :viking:

    ... btw, "decently tough" guy sounds like an oxymoron, but I couldn't come up with a better term. Besides any person except the weakest can be "decently tough" if they are committed enough or in the proper state of mind to try his best to **** somebody up. :dead: :dead: :dead:

    Quote Originally Posted by Kengou
    By 'crappling', I've always understood it to be bad grappling techniques that work poorly/don't work on trained grapplers, trained rarely or poorly. I've seen some people here refer to it as more of just working some grappling basics, but not enough or not really rolling/sparring, and not under a certified grappling instructor.
    Crappling is bad grappling. And bad grappling can get you hurt when you think your are going to defend yourlself.

    Example: some of the takedowns attempted by these crapplers are done so bending down as if they were doing some sort of yoga "downward facing dog" stretch. Yumm, yumm. Good way to get a knee on your face. And a knee to the face can be delivered by anybody with half an ounce of brains. Same with people grabbing their foots to secure a triangle... good way to get break them.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kengou
    In the case of the latter, I think that's actually a pretty good trend, since it's better to know some small number of moves, even if they aren't trained that often or sparred with, as long as they are actually effective moves.
    That's a contradition on itself. A grappling move is only effective if it's done repeteadly against a resisting partner WHO KNOWS HOW TO EFFECTIVELY RESIST YOU. Just because someone has never stepped on a BJJ school that doesn't mean that person is a moron that won't know how to screw you up. Therein lies the danger of crappling or crappy stand-up: they give you a level of confidence on skills that are not there.

    Besides, if you are going to learn a few basic grappling moves, why not with someone who is qualified to teach grappling .ie. a grappling expert, or someone with excellent stand-up who went out of his way to develop a basic, yet effective grappling base, and who knows his basics well enough to teach them?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kengou
    Practicing the Upa escape, for example, in a TKD class, isn't that bad as long as it's done properly. At least those TKD people know a little about what to do when mounted by an idiot.
    Practicing the Upa drill on itself without some context is useless. It has to be an incredibly retarded idiot to get dismounted by a simple upa. :tard:

    If your attacker is untrained on the ground, and yet is able to mount you, that means he is bigger/stronger than you. You will need a lot more than an Upa-like move to get him off you. :dead: :viking: :dead: :viking

    Doing an Upa drill on a TKD class is good only if it raises awareness that there is such a thing as grappling, and if induces people to cross-train. It is not a good thing if it convers a false sense of confidence and proficiency.

    **** EDIT *****

    Something happened to my post that got its text duplicated (thus making it longer). Anyways, I just fixed it.
    Last edited by Teh El Macho; 3/02/2006 5:07pm at .
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  4. Darkpaladin is offline
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    The r34l Drunken Jiu Jitsu

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    Posted On:
    3/02/2006 5:39pm

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     Style: _razilian _iu _itsu

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    If we don't get rid of crappling, the terrorists win....
    :google:

    Number of bottles of beer downed by me and my girlfriend within a half hour while playing the Channel 7 "how many times will they say 'snow' game" during the "Blizzard of '06": 3.5 each.
  5. ojgsxr6 is offline

    Dorkus Malorkus

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    Posted On:
    3/02/2006 5:55pm

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     Style: Boxing/BJJudo/Crossfit

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Crappling is anything that can be countered with Anti Grappling.
  6. kipdynamite is offline

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    Posted On:
    3/02/2006 6:22pm


     Style: judo, boxing, BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    There are a lot of diluted individuals that believe there systems will "only" work in the streets. Crapplers are included in this group. Anyone who watched the vids can not make a cohernt arguement otherwise. And that bitch slapping crap they did in the 2nd vid was lame.:waijima
  7. trick is offline

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    Posted On:
    3/02/2006 6:25pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: JKD

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    To be trained ineffectively is better to be untrained, although it may be hard to unlearn. However, it is foolish to crapple when you are already exposed to the world of MA.
  8. kipdynamite is offline

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    Posted On:
    3/02/2006 7:12pm


     Style: judo, boxing, BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I have a question: Why is it everyone who studies JKD (and I include myself when I went through my JKD/Jun Fan phase) speaks like a fortune cookie? It must be becuase ole Bruce was a philosiphy major or something.:hello:
  9. Roidie McDouchebag is offline
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    Injury Waiting To Happen

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    Posted On:
    3/02/2006 7:13pm

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     Style: Snatch Wrestling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    This thread is gay.

    However, to me, bad crappling is the kind that comes from strikers buying a couple of grappling instructionals and then teaching the techniques wrong to students that don't know the difference.

    Kids fooling around in basements is crappy grappling...but they either know that or are retarded beyond comprehension. I don't think it's a bad idea to practice and spar without a decent instructor if one is not available, or in addition to training with a good instructor.

    TKD Mcdojo teaching grappling =/= Kids fooling around
  10. NSLightsOut is offline
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    Posted On:
    3/02/2006 8:03pm


     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I have at least four or five training partners that are MA school owners in their own right.

    They have recognized that their Karate/Kung Fu/KB/Whatever has no bearing on how they do on the ground. As a result, they have found competent grappling instruction to help them in this area.

    Now, if these guys can put the time and effort in to get a blue or purple belt in BJJ, or , for that matter, certified in any grappling-specific MA in order to teach an actual grappling program, as opposed to going on the lazy man's route to a crappling program

    I believe that any school owner with integrity would do the same, or seek out a suitably qualified individual to run a grappling program. There is no excuse for someone selling substandard teaching as the genuine article.
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