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Voters
65. You may not vote on this poll
  • Yes, it's better than not grappling

    15 23.08%
  • No, they should be doing 'real' grappling

    44 67.69%
  • no, grappling is wrong anyway

    6 9.23%
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  1. Lane is offline
    Lane's Avatar

    Ex-ninja

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    Posted On:
    3/01/2006 8:14pm


     Style: Muso Shinden Ryu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Real grappling shouldn't be too hard to find, so I think there's no excuse for not cross-training.
    --
    L.
  2. kipdynamite is offline

    Registered Member

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    Posted On:
    3/01/2006 8:41pm


     Style: judo, boxing, BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    One more thing...

    I am a 1/4 Apache and a little Cherokee (buit who ain't) and I must take this white boy's ponytail. It is a moral imperative. I must have it as a trophy of battle!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :bom:
  3. Poop Loops is offline
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    OOOOOOOOOOAAARRGGHH RLY?

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    Posted On:
    3/01/2006 9:13pm

    supporting member
     Style: In Transition

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Raynor
    As a reformed crappler, I have mixed views on this. Note that I had a wrestling base, so y experience probably varied from someone with NO experience.

    For starters, crappling will only take you so far. All and all, I'd say you can make it to mid level white with crappling. When I moved from crppling to real BJJ, I got all my stripes in one month and a cool new belt with them. I attribute this in part to my work ethic, but in part to the fact that I didn't need to spend time drilling upas all day and could move right along to the areas that I needed to work on.

    On the other hand, while crappling gave me a head start, while I was crappling, despite the fact that I could defeat mid level to advanced white belts, I had GIGANTIC wholes in my game. So really, even when I won, it looked BAD and it would've gotten me in trouble had I needed to fight.

    Now, where does this leave crappling? Its a mediocre option. Do it if you must, but realistically, someone, somewhere will teach you how to grapple if you show them you want it. Gonna have to vote against it.
    Also, doing real grappling the whole time would have probably gotten you further than crappling, right?
  4. GoldenJonas is offline

    Light Heavyweight

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    Posted On:
    3/01/2006 9:41pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Thaiboxerken
    Sad thing about that demo video is that they think they look cool and tough.

    No, crappling is like any other bullshido. It gives a false sense of ability.

    This coupled, with Garbanzo's "too deadly" comment, I feel are accurate.

    While in college I studied Kenpo, Ed Parker's system, and I remember one "kata" (forgive me for even partaking) and it was called a Binding Kata. It consisted of transitioning through various wrist and arm locks and ended on the ground after an "osoto gari - ish" takedown.

    We were told to only perform the "kata" on middle to upper ranks never on lower ranks because IT WAS TOO DANGEROUS.

    Now, I don't think the "kata" was necessarily crappling, well, OK, the wrist locks were more Aikido than Wally Jay and the uke was completely non resisting, so maybe it was crappling, but seeing as the techniques were "outside of the style" so to say, we were hit with the "to deadly" mantra so that the "kata" was not practiced regularly and when it was it was practiced on an uke who was essentially as resisting as cooked spagetti.

    Switching to JuiJitsu (Japanese / American) years ago I soon realized that what we were told in Kenpo was too deadly is simply part of your submission repertoire and is used on resisting opponents daily.

    Cross training is essential if you are going to compete in something other than musical weapon forms and point (puke) sparring. But, crappling and slap fighting as demonstrated in those vids is just retarded.

    If your gonna spend the time on the mat learning something, find a good teacher and learn how to grapple, not crapple.
  5. TKD Black Belt is offline
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    Keeeeee-Yeah!

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    Posted On:
    3/01/2006 10:30pm


     Style: Whoo-Hoo-Fu!

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    "But in all seriousness, no, they should be doing real grappling taught by real instructors." Garbonza Bean

    My fear with a statement like this, and I'm not picking on you at all, is that it leads to the elitist attitude that seems to be all to prevalent in a large number of BJJ schools. I've actually heard, "If you don't do (insert famous Brazilian family name here) Jiu Jitsu, you're wasting your time!"

    For me its a fine line to walk between 'certifying' instructors and placing faith in people to find 'good' (perhaps not certified but good nonetheless) instruction. I think it is very comendable what BJJ has done in the strick control of 'certifying instructors' but as the issue regarding questionable black belts comes up more and more frequently, perhaps there should be a better way of identifying skill from crappling.

    I don't know about you, but I wouldn't take piano lessons from someone who'd never played a piano. I won't take 'fighting' lessons from someone who hasn't fought.

    Just my two cents.

    TKD
  6. Shuma-Gorath is offline
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    Senior Member

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    Posted On:
    3/01/2006 10:33pm

    supporting member
     Style: BJJ - Homeland Security

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I can't believe this is even a question. Do not excuse mediocre striking OR grappling in any form. Suffer not the crappler to live.
  7. Poop Loops is offline
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    OOOOOOOOOOAAARRGGHH RLY?

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    Posted On:
    3/01/2006 10:40pm

    supporting member
     Style: In Transition

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by TKD Black Belt
    "But in all seriousness, no, they should be doing real grappling taught by real instructors." Garbonza Bean

    My fear with a statement like this, and I'm not picking on you at all, is that it leads to the elitist attitude that seems to be all to prevalent in a large number of BJJ schools. I've actually heard, "If you don't do (insert famous Brazilian family name here) Jiu Jitsu, you're wasting your time!"

    For me its a fine line to walk between 'certifying' instructors and placing faith in people to find 'good' (perhaps not certified but good nonetheless) instruction. I think it is very comendable what BJJ has done in the strick control of 'certifying instructors' but as the issue regarding questionable black belts comes up more and more frequently, perhaps there should be a better way of identifying skill from crappling.

    I don't know about you, but I wouldn't take piano lessons from someone who'd never played a piano. I won't take 'fighting' lessons from someone who hasn't fought.

    Just my two cents.

    TKD
    It's simple: Look at the school's tournament record. Generally, though: Wrestling, BJJ, Judo, Sambo, and Submission wrestling are good grappling. Everything else, generally isn't.
  8. Jitsuman is offline

    Registered Member

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    Posted On:
    3/01/2006 11:08pm


     Style: BJJ, TKD, Boxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by TKD Black Belt
    "But in all seriousness, no, they should be doing real grappling taught by real instructors." Garbonza Bean

    My fear with a statement like this, and I'm not picking on you at all, is that it leads to the elitist attitude that seems to be all to prevalent in a large number of BJJ schools. I've actually heard, "If you don't do (insert famous Brazilian family name here) Jiu Jitsu, you're wasting your time!"

    For me its a fine line to walk between 'certifying' instructors and placing faith in people to find 'good' (perhaps not certified but good nonetheless) instruction. I think it is very comendable what BJJ has done in the strick control of 'certifying instructors' but as the issue regarding questionable black belts comes up more and more frequently, perhaps there should be a better way of identifying skill from crappling.

    I don't know about you, but I wouldn't take piano lessons from someone who'd never played a piano. I won't take 'fighting' lessons from someone who hasn't fought.

    Just my two cents.

    TKD
    You dont get it.

    being "certified" in BJJ means you've beaten the best around in open grappling/MMA/whatever events and can tap the **** out of anyone who trains under you.

    Then again you do TKD....
  9. It is Fake is offline
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    Administrator

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    Posted On:
    3/01/2006 11:17pm

    staff
     Style: xingyi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by TKD Black Belt
    www.fantasiafestival.com

    My fear with a statement like this, and I'm not picking on you at all, is that it leads to the elitist attitude that seems to be all to prevalent in a large number of BJJ schools. I've actually heard, "If you don't do (insert famous Brazilian family name here) Jiu Jitsu, you're wasting your time!"

    For me its a fine line to walk between 'certifying' instructors and placing faith in people to find 'good' (perhaps not certified but good nonetheless) instruction. I think it is very comendable what BJJ has done in the strick control of 'certifying instructors' but as the issue regarding questionable black belts comes up more and more frequently, perhaps there should be a better way of identifying skill from crappling.

    I don't know about you, but I wouldn't take piano lessons from someone who'd never played a piano. I won't take 'fighting' lessons from someone who hasn't fought.

    Just my two cents.

    TKD
    I think you need to read KFO or some of the threads here to see TMA etlitists attitude. BJJ ego is no different just, more popular.

    Have you read some of the Aikido threads? I think it takes more ego to say I'm to deadly I can't spar. Or, my favorite, if I wasn't so humble I'd blah blah blah..

    Personally, the elitist attitude keeps much of the BS out of grappling arts.
  10. Olorin is offline
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    Senior Member

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    Posted On:
    3/01/2006 11:23pm

    supporting memberhall of fame
     Style: Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Poop Loops
    It's a good thing. This means I will never be the worst grappler in the world…
    Seconded, I least I will be able to tap somebody.
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