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  1. JohnnyCache is offline
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    All Out of Bubblegum

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    Posted On:
    3/17/2006 5:40pm

    supporting memberforum leader
     Style: MMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Garbanzo Bean
    I still remember the first BJJ class in which I got to roll. I tried to get a BJJ black belt off of my chest by bench pressing him. What a riot that must have been to everyone else.

    AHHAAHA On tuesday I found myself flying kind of blind in randori and tried to stop an osoto by wrapping my arms around the guy and squeezing and lifting.

    Anybody want to guess at the success rate of my 'bearhug counter' was?

    (hint: It would be a good number to represent with a signed int)
    There's no choice but to confront you, to engage you, to erase you. I've gone to great lengths to expand my threshold of pain. I will use my mistakes against you. There's no other choice.
  2. Tourettes is offline

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    Posted On:
    3/17/2006 6:43pm


     Style: judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by JohnnyCache
    AHHAAHA On tuesday I found myself flying kind of blind in randori and tried to stop an osoto by wrapping my arms around the guy and squeezing and lifting.

    Anybody want to guess at the success rate of my 'bearhug counter' was?

    (hint: It would be a good number to represent with a signed int)

    don't have to guess but you're a big guy, right? The result could have been spectacular.
  3. MONGO is offline

    Middleweight

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    Posted On:
    3/18/2006 12:51am

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     Style: na

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I got crushed in newaza the other day and it was a great thing. I realized that I have some seriously bad habits that still need breaking but I get away with it most of the time because of strength and a little bit of skill.

    A good crushing is good for everyone, not just the newbies. It ups the focus.
  4. Tourettes is offline

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    Posted On:
    3/18/2006 12:58am


     Style: judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    once you can put your ego aside, you can learn a lot. Dave Camarillo has been circulating a great article on this.
  5. Cassius is offline
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    Posted On:
    3/18/2006 1:10am

    supporting memberforum leader
     Style: Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Tourettes
    once you can put your ego aside, you can learn a lot. Dave Camarillo has been circulating a great article on this.
    That's what I consider the blue belt I wear to be the biggest indicator of. I don't get to have an ego in class anymore. Now it's about learning as much as I can in the most efficient way possible. Unfortunately that means losing a lot.

    A random bit of pompous-sounding advice I've found to be useful in my training thus far: A smart man learns from his own mistakes. A really smart man learns from other people's mistakes. Watch when other people **** up and try to learn from it.
    "No. Listen to me because I know what I'm talking about here." -- Hannibal
  6. Tourettes is offline

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    Posted On:
    3/18/2006 1:24am


     Style: judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Losing in randori? Whatever. Randori is a safe environment for you to experiment and learn. Winning and losing in randori doesn't mean the same thing that it does in a tournament or self-defense or whatever you're into. If you're just trying to win in randori, you limit yourself - at least that's the way I view it(partially at least) and you just won't last long term.
  7. jnp is offline
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    Titanium laced beauty

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    Posted On:
    3/18/2006 1:41am

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     Style: BJJ, wrestling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Rant

    Quote Originally Posted by MONGO
    A good crushing is good for everyone, not just the newbies. It ups the focus.
    I agree. Unfortunately for me, the only person that still consistently crushes me is my instructor. Not because I'm that good, but because the other purples and browns that can get the job done have either stopped training or come to different classes than I do. My training has suffered for it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tourettes
    Losing in randori? Whatever. Randori is a safe environment for you to experiment and learn. Winning and losing in randori doesn't mean the same thing that it does in a tournament or self-defense or whatever you're into. If you're just trying to win in randori, you limit yourself - at least that's the way I view it(partially at least) and you just won't last long term.
    Hell yes. Approaching randori with a win or lose mindset is guaranteed to slow your progress. A state trooper who I respect tremendously once told me, "If I'm not tapping, I'm not learning."
    Shut the hell up and train.
  8. JohnnyCache is offline
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    All Out of Bubblegum

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    Posted On:
    3/18/2006 1:02pm

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     Style: MMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Tourettes
    don't have to guess but you're a big guy, right? The result could have been spectacular.
    artist's dipiction


    Oh it was spectacular. It was highlight real material. Just not for me.

    I suppose if I had tried something offensive from the position I might have gotten something done, but I just tried to stop the through. I was thinking in one dimension. (hey it was my frist time out)
    There's no choice but to confront you, to engage you, to erase you. I've gone to great lengths to expand my threshold of pain. I will use my mistakes against you. There's no other choice.
  9. The Vagrant is offline

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    Posted On:
    3/18/2006 5:04pm


     Style: MMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    judging from the river of very obvious quotes and advice, and all the wrong assumptions, i guess i should explain a bit better.

    club A: my experience there was a mixed bag all the way, when i say "you get yelled at for doublelegs and pickups" i mean, if you ever attempt if or discuss it, you get treated with a "we dont do that here" (typical WC-like garbage) and every two classes you get to listen to a speech on why mixing arts and brute force is the devil and pure judo always wins, i like the "technique over force" and all that jazz, the problem is, how do you know? a while ago, one of the guys at our club went to compete, guess to what he lost? doubleleg, he didnt know what to do. when i asked the instructor about how you defend against it, he told me something along the lines "that doesnt work if your judo is good" yeah right. another time i tried to discuss the merits of sprawling to an assistant instructor, i pretty much made him angry, he couldnt accept sprawling as a valid option. (i know right now you're all thinking i was playing the asshole, i wasnt)

    now, i like these guys, they were all nice people and i had a great time, i guess i just couldnt agree with their stuff, they dont mean no harm, dont pretend to be deadly, and when i asked the head guy why he doesnt up the intensity he laughed and told me he would loose all his students.

    my greatest experience there was rolling with a guy from japan, a 4th dan in university judo (AKA: kosen judo), more on that later.

    club B) first class was great, conditioning, fun games and good, non-anal randori, almost no drilling. i really think this is what im looking at as far as judo goes.
    on second class, we did newaza, ive made clear after the first class that i will join depending how they work on the ground. he put me with a yellow belt at first i mounted him a few times then got the armbar. the instructor was looking and for the second turn we practiced together, now it would be a good time for an ego crushing, and showing me how they are on the grond and get a free student, right? well, i know its randori, its a game, but i expect to be dominated by someone with a blackbelt, sorry. it was pretty cool, the whole class stopped at one point to watch us (there was not much people that night) we went at it for around 10 minutes i think, he got sidemount two times and i used two escapes taught by my previous instructor. he probably didnt went 100% but still, in 10 minutes he could have shown some sort of domination. he was VERY good at turtling tho, i could never get the hooks for the backmount even if i had good occasions. i guess he's very competition oriented and just doesnt care about the ground in the same way i do (and i cont care about judo comps at all) he also had good conditioning, unlike the guys at my previous school, he left our session fresh as ****, while i was seriously starting to get tired, good thing.
    yes, i do have an agenda, my goal is to practice something that would eventually be benefitial to MMA, that's what i ultimately want to do. the problem is that this is a small town with (or so i tought) no BJJ or sub-grappling schools, and MMA is illegal in the country (pancrace is, which is basically MT and subgrappling, no ground strikes but i cant afford the travel prices to go to the very few pancrace schools in the country) so, since i like judo takedowns, and they have some groundwork, i told myself to go for it.

    now the thing is, a few days after second class, i was bored one night and visited the boxing gym just to pass time. and what a surprise to find they have a BJJ class! that would solve all my problems IF, and thats a big IF, the classes are actually good. who knows, i couldnt go to the trial class last time, next class is on tuesday and i cant fucking wait to find out.

    so either 1) the class sucks and i join judo school B, because id rather learn good standup that subpar ground. 2) the class is good and i stop annoying judo guys with what i learned from the modern army combatives progam level-1 clip i found online with some BJJ stuff (**** you, i have to do do with what i have)
    either option doesnt seem too bad.



    now about the neck crank/choke thing, it went like this. at club A, i was discussing the merits of a carotid RNC versus the standart judo trachea RNC, instructor didnt know about the carotid version at all and strongly discouraged against it, i could understand that and dont blame him but for a 60yo guy he could have been a little informed.
    at club B, for some reason i asked about some backmont stuff and at one time i just put my hands in a carotid RNC position. the instructor freaked out and told me that i was doing a neck crank, then started joking about that being some walker texas ranger **** and that's supposed to break a guy's neck if you twist a bit. now i know jack **** about neck cranks but i explained troughly why this is a choke and why id do it over a trachea one, but he disagreed and told this just doesnt exist anywhere. then we went on with our stuff.



    about the "no **** sherlock" replies i got about ego and thinking im good, well, i know all that, i know that in order to progress you need to play with people much better than you, i (try to) keep my ego in check and im not the type of guy to be sad when i tap to a better partner, in fact im quite happy, unless i dont like the guy or theres some rivalry.

    i was very frustrated at my previous club because almost the only way i have ever tapped was when some big guy sits in yoko shiogatame (sidecontrol) and im not getting out in any way, since well, he won according to judo rules, he accomplished his goal and we're not getting anywhere.
    i was frustrated because when i join a school as a noob, i want to be crushed, and sore, i know im not good, and want to get good, this is not accomplished that way.
    if every single person really toyed with me, which is unlikely, i am angry, i cant learn anything that way.

    i know what toying with someone is. occasionaly, but very rarely, my instructor has let me roll with either another noob or a girl, which was the perfect occasion to let someone take my back, get mounted etc for practicing escapes.

    now, i know what someone good on the ground looks like, at school A, the instructor often had us do free seminars. while they were mostly the same thing as the regular classes cept on saturday, one time the seminar was held by the earlier mentioned kosen 4th dan. dude didnt speak very well, but man, it was awesome, if every class went like that, id still be at that school. he made us work pretty hard and when i did standing randori with him, i could really feel being outclassed, like im fuckin supposed to be.
    after the thing ended, i asked him if he would do some newaza with me.
    holy ****, i went from "when will someone make me tap??" to tapping every 15 seconds, what i felt afterwards was kinda simmilar to being just done having sex, i finally found what i was looking for. unfortunately, he doesnt come here often at all, and trains very far away.

    holy ****, nooooooone will read all this.
  10. JohnnyCache is offline
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    All Out of Bubblegum

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    Posted On:
    3/18/2006 5:31pm

    supporting memberforum leader
     Style: MMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Man, my instructor actually said "this is a blood choke; if you make it a wind choke you are almost always doing it wrong. Trust me, if you want him out in 10 seconds not 45, it's a blood choke."

    the variety is almost painful.
    There's no choice but to confront you, to engage you, to erase you. I've gone to great lengths to expand my threshold of pain. I will use my mistakes against you. There's no other choice.
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