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  1. AFS is offline

    Judo Instructor

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    Jan 2004
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    Brisbane
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    Posted On:
    3/07/2006 9:54am

    supporting member
     Style: judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    That sort of proofs my point.
    You can only get ippon seoi nage right , when you do it in uchi - komi.
    That means you can't do it in randori, despite being okay at it in uchi komi.
    Ippon seoi nage is a dynamic throw, so many factors play a role which you can't practice well in uchi komi.

    Again - I started this thread to get opionions not to declare the official end to uchi komi.


    The point that Nage Komi is too hard, doesn't mean you have to do uchi komis.
    There are always crash mats etc.
    And you can do hundrets of them, unless you haven't got enough mats for the number of players.
  2. PO9 is offline

    10th level Superlesson Grandmaster

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    NC
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    Posted On:
    3/07/2006 10:01am


     Style: Currently Inactive

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by AFS
    That sort of proofs my point.
    You can only get ippon seoi nage right , when you do it in uchi - komi.
    That means you can't do it in randori, despite being okay at it in uchi komi.
    Ippon seoi nage is a dynamic throw, so many factors play a role which you can't practice well in uchi komi.

    Again - I started this thread to get opionions not to declare the official end to uchi komi.


    The point that Nage Komi is too hard, doesn't mean you have to do uchi komis.
    There are always crash mats etc.
    And you can do hundrets of them, unless you haven't got enough mats for the number of players.

    Conversly, uchi komi has drastically improved my foot sweeps and minor reaps, but I think it's less useful for major reaps and arm/shoulder/hip tosses.
    Who, for Pete’s sake! Is opposing science? In fact, we want MORE science by CRITICALLY ANALIZING the evidence-Connie Morris, Kansas State BOE (bolding and underlining part of original quote, red is my emphasis)


    As long as you try to treat your subjective experiences as if they were objective experiences, you will continue to be confounded by people who disagree with you.-some guy on an internet messageboard
  3. FictionPimp is offline

    Sexiest Punching Bag Alive

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    Indiana
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    Posted On:
    3/07/2006 11:07am


     Style: BJJ/Judo/Boxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    We always do 9 and throw on the 10th then switch sides. So we do 9 right side 1 throw, then 9 left side 1 throw. I find this to be an advantage because I can pull off left side throws much better then my friend who trains at a different school. We are both the same rank and know the same throws, but I always get him when I switch to left side.
  4. PO9 is offline

    10th level Superlesson Grandmaster

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    Posted On:
    3/07/2006 11:21am


     Style: Currently Inactive

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Same here, but I think AFS's point is Uke is not actively resisting.
    Who, for Pete’s sake! Is opposing science? In fact, we want MORE science by CRITICALLY ANALIZING the evidence-Connie Morris, Kansas State BOE (bolding and underlining part of original quote, red is my emphasis)


    As long as you try to treat your subjective experiences as if they were objective experiences, you will continue to be confounded by people who disagree with you.-some guy on an internet messageboard
  5. Tourettes is offline

    Registered Member

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    Nov 2004
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    east coast
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    Posted On:
    3/07/2006 1:10pm


     Style: judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by PO9
    Same here, but I think AFS's point is Uke is not actively resisting.

    Sometimes you need that dead weight. If uke resists all the time, you can pick up bad habits as while you'll know how to fight to complete a throw, you never work towards the perfect throw. Of course, you have to believe that there is a perfect form for each throw. Your choice.

    If you do uchikomis thoughtlessly, then like anything mindless, it's a phenomenal waste of time. You need to analyze where you place your hips, your feet, etc against opponents with different body types and you need to give your body a chance to learn.

    It's like watching players who just randori and never drill. Sure, they can randori all day and sometimes kick ass, but there's just something missing (aesthetic perhaps). Their judo only gets so good, and they can be dangerous as **** too(as in lack of control).

    I think a heirarchy comes down to:

    static uchikomi --> moving uchikomi --> uchikomi with resistance --> nagekomi --> nagekomi with resistance --> randori --> competition --> too broken to compete --> beer
  6. WesMcNasty is offline

    Registered Member

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    Posted On:
    3/08/2006 11:41am


     Style: no-gi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I find that uchi-komi is best when systematically used in conjunction with nage-komi and randori, with adequately varying degrees of resistance along the way. Generally, I approach learning a new throwing technique or attempting to perfect another with the following steps:

    1. A theoretical understanding of the technique.
    2. Being able to replicate the technique against a "dead" opponent. The first step of this process would be being able to replicate the kazushi and entrance (uchi-komi), with the actual execution of the throw and follow-through (nage-komi) being the last step.
    3. The ability to execute the technique against an opponent in randori. At this point, the muscle memory will be engrained. However, this is where the throw will start to deviate from the one practiced against a dead opponent. The kazushi and entrance will still be roughly the same, but the execution of the throw will be much different.
    Think of osoto-gari. When we all learned osoto-gari, we were taught that our opponent should fall straight backwards. However, have you ever seen osoto-gari used like this in randori or in competition? Uke is thrown backwards, but with the loin, like in harai-goshi, and to a corner, or sometimes even a side. I find that the osoto-garis where an opponent is thrown to a side is the most dynamic and effective.
    Sure, the classical versions are great and work fine, but you will need different techniques depending on the situation.
    So, in short, uchi-komi is one of many steps in a systematic approach to the mastery of a technique. However, if uchi-komi is the main body of a session and too a great a number of techniques are covered, then there is a problem. The techniques will become watered down and will only work in uchi-komi.
  7. JohnnyCache is offline
    JohnnyCache's Avatar

    All Out of Bubblegum

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    Posted On:
    3/10/2006 3:11pm

    supporting memberforum leader
     Style: MMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Well, I'm realizing that as a beginner if I was getting thrown every time I was recieving an uchi-komi, I wouldn't be able to walk after class...
    There's no choice but to confront you, to engage you, to erase you. I've gone to great lengths to expand my threshold of pain. I will use my mistakes against you. There's no other choice.
  8. FictionPimp is offline

    Sexiest Punching Bag Alive

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    Posted On:
    3/10/2006 3:42pm


     Style: BJJ/Judo/Boxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Hell last night the guy I was working with about pulled my arm out of the joint on his uchi-komi's. I'd hate to think what he would of done throwing me all night.
  9. The Vagrant is offline

    Registered Member

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    Posted On:
    3/15/2006 11:10am


     Style: MMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    this thread made me switch schools.
    45 minutes of uchikomi per session was too fuckin much.
  10. Zing! is offline

    Registered Member

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    Chicago
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    Posted On:
    3/15/2006 3:20pm


     Style: bjj

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by The Vagrant
    this thread made me switch schools.
    45 minutes of uchikomi per session was too fuckin much.
    How long were your practices?

    We've had 45 min of uchikomi on several occasions. But they were followed by at least an hour of randori (4 min standing, 2 min ground, rince and repeat).
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