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  1. AFS is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/28/2006 8:52pm

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     Style: judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Uchi-Komi - a waste of time & energy?

    Uchi - Komis, everybody does them as part of a judo class.
    And although there are some benefits- practice unbalancing ( kuzushi), timing and dependent on the speed you get a cardio workout, it seems to me that the moves you practice in uchi-komi are quite unrealistic. When compared with a 'real' throw in randori or competition.

    The partner is not defending, usually just follows on and 50% of the uchi - komi - that is moving out of the position is not helpful to learn how to throw.
    Furthermore, it reminds me of a javelin thrower who never let's go of his javelin or a tennis player who practices his serve without doing the full movement.
    Whilst I still use them to warm up, I will move away from using uchi komis too often and let my students practice throwing against a defending partner.

    What do you think?
    Are they too valuable to be left out?
  2. Shuma-Gorath is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/28/2006 9:07pm

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    It's important; I equate it to hitting focus mitts in kickboxing. As long as you are moving around you are working a set of skills that easily translate to working against resistance.

    When I was in Judo we did Uchikomi to the point where we'd picked the person up or put them off balance, then stop the fall. Just doing the entry I can drill on my own against a wall.
  3. MONGO is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/28/2006 9:27pm

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I think that uchikomi has helped, to the point that the majority of the throw is rehearsed. We do about 15 min of uchikomi and then 45 mins of randori. I think that the uchikomi is a good warm up and good to rehearse the feeling of starting the throw.

    I don't think is a waste and I feel that it is one of the most vital parts of throwing practice.
  4. AFS is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/28/2006 9:57pm

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I wanted provoke some thought with the title of the thread.

    I could argue that it is not part of the throwing practice at all - since you don't throw.
    It is part of breaking balance and maybe lifting the partner.
    The comparison with hitting mitts also appears limited - since you can do the full technique with 100% power and hit something when hitting a mitt.

    In Uchi Komi you stop half way.
    So, are they non- specific and do we just accept them as part of the traning because we have always done so??


    I don't claim to have the answer to this question, neither do I want to convert you not to do them. BUt can we train more specific and do we overemphasise uchi komi?
    Last edited by AFS; 2/28/2006 10:00pm at .
  5. Greese is offline
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    Motorboatin SOB

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    Posted On:
    2/28/2006 10:00pm

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     Style: Judo and BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I like uchi-komis, I think my coach was telling me they had fallen out of favor with a lot of schools out there because they were too static.
    And that's when I figured out that tears couldn't make somebody who was dead alive again. There's another thing to learn about tears, they can't make somebody who doesn't love you any more love you again. It's the same with prayers. I wonder how much of their lives people waste crying and praying to God. If you ask me, the devil makes more sense than God does. I can at least see why people would want him around. It's good to have somebody to blame for the bad stuff they do. Maybe God's there because people get scared of all the bad stuff they do. They figure that God and the Devil are always playing this game of tug-of-war game with them. And they never know which side they're gonna wind up on. I guess that tug-of-war idea explains how sometimes, even when people try to do something good, it still turns out bad.
  6. AFS is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/28/2006 10:21pm

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    They are static , but you can make them dynamic to a degree.
    For certain throws, they don't work very well - e.g. sumi gaeshi, or the diving techniques.
    Plus - if you do them wrong , you can take up some bad habits, if nobody corrects you.
    With a throw, you get better feedback, about the succes of the technique
  7. UpaLumpa is offline
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    Posted On:
    3/01/2006 11:36am

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     Style: BJJ

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Work well as progressive build up in resistance, as drills and as warmups.
  8. fanatical is offline
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    Posted On:
    3/01/2006 12:04pm

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     Style: BJJ

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Good practice of off balancing and positioning like Shuma-gorath said.
    I think of it like a step on the progress ladder before sparring.

    Don't really know if it's something that can be taken away without losing quality. My own experience is that it helps. There are many variables to throws and it's easier to isolate the off balancing and positioning to correct and feel it better when you're just doing uchi-komi than when you're completing the throw.
    IMHO.
    More human than human is our motto.
  9. RoninPimp is offline
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    Posted On:
    3/01/2006 12:12pm

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     Style: Rex Kwon Do

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I think they are important. A good drill and can be used for conditioning. As long as that's not all you do.
  10. Teh El Macho is offline
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    Posted On:
    3/01/2006 12:20pm

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by AFS
    I wanted provoke some thought with the title of the thread.

    I could argue that it is not part of the throwing practice at all - since you don't throw.
    It is part of breaking balance and maybe lifting the partner.
    But I would feel that you need to master and rehearse those two in order to master a throw. I'm quite a n00b besides that I'm a complete uncoordinated dork. Maybe Judoka with more experience may do away with uchi-komi. I don't think I could learn without it at all. :read:

    It's like the drills I did at my prev. BJJ class. For the n00bs, most of the class was drilling and drilling the same passes, chokes and what-not ab-nauseum. Sometimes the person receiving the technique would be fully resisting, sometimes just 50%, sometimes we would exec it all the way, sometimes just pieces of it. Without that, I don't think uncoordinated n00bs like me could make any progress. :icon_cry:

    Quote Originally Posted by AFS
    The comparison with hitting mitts also appears limited - since you can do the full technique with 100% power and hit something when hitting a mitt.
    You may hit 100%, but you still don't have the worry of the mitts fighting back. Thus what you gain by executing the drill at 100% at will comes at a price of not doing it against a fully resisting opponent. So something gets compromised in order to maximize some other benefit... I think.
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