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  1. Greese is offline
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    Motorboatin SOB

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    Posted On:
    2/28/2006 9:54pm

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     Style: Judo and BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by jnp
    If you squeeze your knees together while attempting to pull your heels toward your own butt (exerting a contracting force with your lower legs), he will not be able to pull his head out. Also make sure to curl your foot toward your own shin in order to flex your calf muscle as this increases the tightness of the triangle.

    You stated 'get a slight angle on the neck'. The MINIMUM angle you should strive to attain should be your body alignment at a 45 degree angle in relation to his shoulder opposite the trapped arm. Basically, the closer your angle is to being perpendicular to his body's alignment, the stronger the triangle.
    This is why I start people in the right direction because jnp explained it way better than I would.
    And that's when I figured out that tears couldn't make somebody who was dead alive again. There's another thing to learn about tears, they can't make somebody who doesn't love you any more love you again. It's the same with prayers. I wonder how much of their lives people waste crying and praying to God. If you ask me, the devil makes more sense than God does. I can at least see why people would want him around. It's good to have somebody to blame for the bad stuff they do. Maybe God's there because people get scared of all the bad stuff they do. They figure that God and the Devil are always playing this game of tug-of-war game with them. And they never know which side they're gonna wind up on. I guess that tug-of-war idea explains how sometimes, even when people try to do something good, it still turns out bad.
  2. Greese is offline
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    Motorboatin SOB

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    Posted On:
    2/28/2006 9:57pm

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     Style: Judo and BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    90% of all triangle problems can be fixed with jnp's advice, btw.
    And that's when I figured out that tears couldn't make somebody who was dead alive again. There's another thing to learn about tears, they can't make somebody who doesn't love you any more love you again. It's the same with prayers. I wonder how much of their lives people waste crying and praying to God. If you ask me, the devil makes more sense than God does. I can at least see why people would want him around. It's good to have somebody to blame for the bad stuff they do. Maybe God's there because people get scared of all the bad stuff they do. They figure that God and the Devil are always playing this game of tug-of-war game with them. And they never know which side they're gonna wind up on. I guess that tug-of-war idea explains how sometimes, even when people try to do something good, it still turns out bad.
  3. Cassius is online now
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    Posted On:
    2/28/2006 10:44pm

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     Style: Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by GoJu - Joe
    I am 6 1 and have the same problem I think shorter legs are better for the triangle choke.
    You are so incredibly wrong it is not even funny.

    I'm 6'1" as well, but I have short legs for my height. Trust me, it is NOT easier to do when you have short legs.
    Last edited by Cassius; 2/28/2006 10:51pm at .
  4. Cassius is online now
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    Posted On:
    2/28/2006 10:59pm

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     Style: Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Kengou
    I have pretty long legs and I get the triangle position a lot (head and arm in legs, with ankles crossed, legs not yet triangled) and I can never finish the triangle choke. I learned it with keeping the head down, pull the arm across, get a slight angle on his neck then triangle the legs and finish. However, my opponents always end up able to pull their heads out and pass my guard during the transition where I'm getting angle on their neck and opening my legs, right before triangling the legs. They aren't going away from their arm, giving me the omoplata, either. They just pull the head straight out then leave the arm inside my legs and go for the pass.

    I've asked my instructor and he says to just keep practicing until I get the feel for it, but it's been a while and this happens all the time. Should I be squeezing harder with my legs to keep their head trapped? Should I be pulling the head down or holding on to the collar throughout the move? Or do I just need to be faster at getting angle and triangling my legs so they don't have enough time to pull out?
    A couple things. When you say "Getting angle," I'm assuming you mean that you're spinning? Here's something to try:

    As you break your guard, pop your hips up as high as you can. Then, as you go to spin, straighten the leg that is going across the back of the neck and CHOP down on their neck. This should give you a good spin, it should keep them low, and it should make it WAY easier for you to get the full triangle locked.

    Then, when you have that, bring the arm across (there are numerous ways to do this if it is not across, but the easiest is just to bridge and then bring the arm across when it naturally pops up in the air), squeeze your legs, and pull down on the head if you have to. If he tries to stand up, you should already be to one side of him, and underhook the leg on the same side as the arm you do not have triangled.

    Let me know if anything I said is unclear.
  5. Goju - Joe is offline
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    I am a Ninja bitches!! Deal with it

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    Posted On:
    2/28/2006 11:59pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Improv comedy

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Garbanzo Bean
    You are so incredibly wrong it is not even funny.

    I'm 6'1" as well, but I have short legs for my height. Trust me, it is NOT easier to do when you have short legs.
    Here's my point, someone with shorter legs has to squeeze more to get them into the right position for a triangle. In doing so they the have it in tighter than I would naturaly. Obviously I need to squeeze more as well and so it's more of a flexability issue than a hight thing. Bottom line is my triangle attempts are craptastic, I can get on people easy enough and hold them their, just not getting the tap so I am doing something wrong.
    Last edited by Goju - Joe; 3/01/2006 12:14am at .
  6. Cassius is online now
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    Posted On:
    3/01/2006 3:52am

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     Style: Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by GoJu - Joe
    Here's my point, someone with shorter legs has to squeeze more to get them into the right position for a triangle. In doing so they the have it in tighter than I would naturaly. Obviously I need to squeeze more as well and so it's more of a flexability issue than a hight thing. Bottom line is my triangle attempts are craptastic, I can get on people easy enough and hold them their, just not getting the tap so I am doing something wrong.
    Having short, thick legs makes it less likely that you can actually lock in a triangle. Once you have the triangle locked on, it is a lot easier to readjust. Sure, someone with ridiculously long, skinny legs might have trouble choking people with triangles locked, but most people that do BJJ are not biafra victims. You don't need THAT much girth to choke someone (sentences like this make me wish Ronin still posted here . . .).

    If your legs are shorter, you don't have a large margin of error for your spin, your leg placement, etc etc. Especially not if you've got big legs, compete against bigger guys, or generally roll with a lot of big guys.

    An actual quote from a Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu Black Belt (speaking to me): "You're built kind of like me, which means you're probably never going to get a triangle on someone good. Become competent at it, but focus more on your strengths."

    I'd love to prove him wrong, but I've spent two years working triangle chokes from various positions, and his point is valid: As a big guy with short legs for my height, I just don't have a lot of room for error. I could spent years fighting it and perfecting that single technique, or I could become good enough to use it if the opportunity jumps into my lap and focus my efforts elsewhere.
  7. C 'Quence is offline

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    Posted On:
    3/01/2006 12:19pm


     Style: GJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    With your right knee over their left shoulder and your ankles crossed, first pull their right arm across your torso and hold it in tight with your right arm. With your left arm pull their head down by grabbing the back of the neck. (As long a some part of you is holding their head down AT ALL TIMES they won't be able to pull their head out.) Now with your left hand holding their head/neck down you should be free to uncross your legs and pivot so that your right heel is right up on their right shoulder. At this point you should make a quick transition with your left hand, from holding their neck/head, to grabbing your right shin. At this point your right leg is in the position it's supposed to be and their held down at the same time, now BEFORE you hook your left knee over your right ankle, you should skoot away from them so that their weight is no longer resting on your thigh, which allows you to get more of your right leg around their neck. Now hook your left knee over your right ankle and squeeze with your legs.
  8. jnp is offline
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    Titanium laced beauty

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    Posted On:
    3/01/2006 2:30pm

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     Style: BJJ, wrestling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Kengou
    Thanks for the responses so far. In transitioning from the ankles crossed to the legs fully triangled, I generally have to open my legs slightly to reposition. It is at this moment, when I'm opening my legs and angling, that they pull the head out.
    Just as the optimum position for your body is at 45 degrees or more to his shoulder, the best offensive posture for you to control your opponent is for him to be flattened out parallel to the ground. Defensively, he should be striving to get his knees under himself to facilitate looking up. If his torso is flat to the ground, it doesn't matter if his butt is in the air. If he is close to perpendicular to the ground with his knees under him, it will negate most of the offensive strength of your triangle. How do you prevent this, especially during the transitions involved in attaining the triangle?

    Try this next time. After you have secured your initial position with your legs crossed on their back, grab the foot that is across his back on his far shoulder. Grab your foot with the hand on the trapped arm side, make sure you grab it with your palm towards the bottom of your foot (you can foot lock yourself if you grab your toes with your palm facing the top of your foot). DO NOT unlock your feet until you have secured the foot with your hand. Pull down on his neck with your foot/hand until he is as flat to the mat as is possible. Often you have to shrimp away with from him on your shoulders to make this happen. At the same time you're pulling, place your other foot on his same side hip as that foot. Push on his hip to increase your angle, so that you're moving towards his legs on the side your body is on, as well as adjusting the leg that is across his back, till that foot is on or close to his far shoulder. Try to swivel on your hips when you do this. In other words, don't move any further away from his body. Also, while you are pushing on the hip with one foot and pulling down on his neck with the hand/foot grab, try to pull his arm further across his neck with your other hand.

    You should have a very strong triangle when you relock your feet. If you do this your figure four should be easy to attain regardless of your leg length. I should know, I have short stocky legs. Just don't make the classic newb mistake of unlocking your feet before you grab and secure your foot with your hand.

    This is easy to show in person, not so easy to describe in print. If anybody is able to understand this and use it, you owe me a beer.

    I almost forgot. Hey GB, try this. Instead of seating your across-the-back-leg knee flush to their head/neck, make sure there is a little triangle of space between the back of your knee and their face/neck. This helped me and my short legs out quite a bit.
    Shut the hell up and train.
  9. Cassius is online now
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    Posted On:
    3/01/2006 4:32pm

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     Style: Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by jnp
    I almost forgot. Hey GB, try this. Instead of seating your across-the-back-leg knee flush to their head/neck, make sure there is a little triangle of space between the back of your knee and their face/neck. This helped me and my short legs out quite a bit.
    Sounds good to me. I'll definitely give it a try.
  10. JohnnyS is offline

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    Posted On:
    3/01/2006 5:46pm

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     Style: Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    To do a tight triangle:
    When your opponent opens your legs or puts his left arm between your legs:
    1. Pull down on his head with both arms.
    2. Cross your ankle behind his head
    3. Squeeze your knees
    4. Put your left foot in his hip and make distance, then angle off to your right. Keep your knees squeezing the whole time against his right shoulder. Keep pulling on his head.
    5. Now you've got the distance (helps to stop him stacking), and the angle (helps to flow to armbar), triangle your right ankle behind your left knee.
    6. Get his arm across your body.
    7. Lift your hips as you pull down on his head..
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