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  1. Cassius is offline
    Cassius's Avatar

    Moderator

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    Posted On:
    2/28/2006 2:37pm

    supporting memberforum leader
     Style: Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Yrkoon9
    NM what I wrote. People are looking for exceptions to general rules and stylistic objectives. I give up.

    If you don't care enough to take classes there isn't much I can say that hasn't been said 100x before or isn't availible online elsewhere.
    How about a slight modification to "ON AVERAGE, BJJ emphasizes position before submission."

    Find exceptions to that you a-holes.
      #41
  2. Darkpaladin is offline
    Darkpaladin's Avatar

    The r34l Drunken Jiu Jitsu

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    Posted On:
    2/28/2006 4:03pm

    supporting member
     Style: _razilian _iu _itsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Garbanzo Bean
    How about a slight modification to "ON AVERAGE, BJJ emphasizes position before submission."

    Find exceptions to that you a-holes.
    Given standard conditions, without an overwhelming opportunity to the contrary, a Brazilian Jiu Jitsu practicioner will first seek to improve position through the hierarchy of positional possibilities in order to better facilitate defensive and offensive options against an opponent.

    That should be airtight enough.
    :google:

    Number of bottles of beer downed by me and my girlfriend within a half hour while playing the Channel 7 "how many times will they say 'snow' game" during the "Blizzard of '06": 3.5 each.
      #42
  3. Gumby is offline

    BJJ Purple Belt

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    Sep 2004
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    Philadelphia
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    Posted On:
    2/28/2006 10:44pm


     Style: Brazilian Jiu Jitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Darkpaladin
    Truth be told, any grappler had as much a chance as Royce to win against the pure striking competition. Ken Shamrock for instance was doing well, losing to Royce early due to Royce using his gi for a choke (something Shamrock wasn't familiar with).
    Royce choked Shamrock out with a RNC- the gi had nothing to do with it.

    If you're referring to Shamrock not being familiar with chokes, you're correct- in reading one of his books, he explained that footlocks were more popular during his pancrase days, because it was difficult for the audience to see the effectiveness of chokes (he said it, not me).

    But seriously here- he outweighed Royce by 50 lbs and hes making excuses?


    Quote Originally Posted by UltimateGaijin
    "You don't see BJJ guys go for an ankle lock while being mounted."

    Bitteti(sp) was trying submission before submission in his beatdown against Don Frye. Got a nice elboe in the back of the head

    Its impossible to classify all grapplers with one statement. Its like saying that all wrestlers like to shoot double legs, or that all boxers like to work the jab- its just not correct.

    Modern MMA rules has put more pressure on the grapplers to perform if they want to win their match. One can no longer wait until an opponent makes a mistake, he has to make his opponent make a mistake. This is the difference between the old Gracie style and today's MMA style.

    Amaury Bitteti was much more of an athlete than Royce Gracie was, so he could play a much more aggressive style of play- pushing to get the submission and such (even though he fought poorly in his match with Don Frye).

    In comparison, Royce's style of BJJ is all about defending yourself first. If your opponent cant attack you, he cant beat you, and often times Royce fights people who are technically not as skilled as he is. This is why Royce played a defensive game- whats the rush? He trained for a real fight, in which you keep going until there is a winner. When you start to open up and attack, especially from the guard position, you give openings to your opponent. Skilled and knowledgable opponents can take advantage of these openings to drop a few strikes down on you should your attacks fail. This is why someone like Nogueira gets hit in his guard much more than Royce Gracie, even though Nogueria's guard is much much better. This is also what Rickson was referring to when he called Nogueira's guard "weak"


    As far as differences between other styles of submission wrestling, Yrkoon and Johnny summed it up when they said that BJJ has its heirarchy of positions- something that other styles of submission wrestling dont have.

    Consider Pancrase (shootfighting) and Catch Wrestling as other types of submission wrestling styles (Im assuming everying here knows Judo and Sambo).

    Pancrase technically could be considered Catch Wrestling, since I believe the techniques were taught to them by a catch wrestler, but the Japanese incorporated their Judo into it and allowed punches on the feet as well. Simply put, Catch Wrestling was a primary style used in Pancrase- Pancrase/shootfighting was a venue rather than a style of fighting.

    The heavy emphasis on footlocks in Catch is obvious if you watch any Pancrase match- this was because they liked the idea of being able to submit your opponent from any position. Problem with this approach (in my opinion) is that it leads many people to get footlock happy and they never learn how to pass a guard or establish a dominant position. This may not matter in a submission wrestling match, but in MMA where strikes are allowed, this is a big deal.

    This is a minor detail, but it makes for a big difference between styles of fighters. Its like comparing a boxer like Roy Jones to Mike Tyson, Muhammed Ali to Joe Frazier- they're all boxers, but they dont all have the same style.
      #43
  4. Strong Machine is offline

    Professional Fighter/Instructor

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    Posted On:
    3/01/2006 12:16am

    supporting member
     Style: Pro-Wrestling

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    But in catch you can win by pin.And catch generally didn't allow chokes....of course Gotch has alot to do with the founding of pancrase as he taught the originator,but I thought those things were worthy of mention.
      #44
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