2/27/2006 6:33pm, #11
2/27/2006 6:42pm, #12Originally Posted by KageKaze
2/27/2006 6:47pm, #13
Frank Shamrock told me that in his mind, his style of sub wrestling was about putting tactical pressure on your opponent, to outpace him until you found your opening, while BJJ is a more defensive art where you look to lure your opponent into making the mistake for you.
2/27/2006 6:49pm, #14
BJJ emphasizes position over submission. Mainly so that BJJ can strike effectively. This is the essence of BJJ. The competitive aspect of BJJ might hide this fact but the reality is never completely obscured.
2/27/2006 7:04pm, #15
What do you want me to elaborate on?
BJJ emphasizes position over submission. You don't see BJJ guys go for an ankle lock while being mounted. Which is something a submission guy would try. BJJ guys would go for a reversal and then work a guard pass to get into sidecontrol and eventually mount.
The objective in BJJ is to improve your position until you can strike effectively and your opponent cannot. It is then that a submission is inevitable as the helpless opponent will simply turn his back.
Look at the knee-on-belly position. Although we give it 2pts in the competitive setting it really isn't worth a **** submission wise. Side control provides many more sub settings. But knee on belly can drop some bombs. Let us not not forget that en route to 2pts.
I have many examples. But some of the purest striking in BJJ you see comes from the old school Vale Tudo people. Rickson, Carlson students, etc. They aren't looking to score points on your ass. They are looking to drop bombs on your face and make you turn over.
2/27/2006 7:38pm, #16
This is a question I asked elsewhere but was derailed by an ignorant kung fu guy who didn't understand what the words he used meant.
Was there submission wrestling around in the US prior to bjj's arival?
Sure there was the mythical catch but it's too rare to really consider.
Most of the sub wrestling schools I've come across are either bjj derived (e.g. 10th planet) or take a lot from and came about after bjj (e.g. Jackson's).
2/27/2006 7:52pm, #17
Revisionist history shows us that everyone wants to claim they were doing it before the UFC. However, I know of none before BJJ.
2/27/2006 7:55pm, #18
Thank you sir.
2/27/2006 7:59pm, #19
Don't know if that falls under "submission wrestling" but wasn't Mr. Lebell and other progressive judo players like him quite the submission pimps long before the Gracies even set foot on US soil?
2/27/2006 8:01pm, #20
Frank Shamrock is wrong.