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  1. Coyote is offline
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    Your RBSD Cannot Save You Now.

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    Posted On:
    2/27/2006 5:34pm

    supporting member
     Style: Spanish Rapier/Epee/Foil

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    He also got a load of t-shirts proclaiming:
    "I Got My Ass Kicked by Somebody who was Adequately Trained and all I got was this Stupid T-Shirt."
  2. Sam Browning is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/27/2006 5:35pm

    hall of famestaff
     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Canuckyokushin
    We want names!Also why are you spelling it Okanowa and I'm spelling it okinawa.
    I can't give you names, that's why its unsubstantiated gossip, and you are spelling Okinawa correctly.
  3. Coyote is offline
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    Your RBSD Cannot Save You Now.

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    Posted On:
    2/27/2006 5:43pm

    supporting member
     Style: Spanish Rapier/Epee/Foil

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Yo, Sam!
    Long time no see!
    Good article up front!
  4. Doctor X is offline
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    ARGUMENTUM AD LATINUM DICTIONAIRUM

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    Posted On:
    2/28/2006 12:27am

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Argumenta ad Rem

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Great thread, I am laughing--and saving with proper credit--the definitions. I will add: "Krotty is junior-sandans."

    I know a few Americans who trained "way back when" on Okinawa--late fifties/early sixties--back when men were men . . . trained on broken glass--as part of the service. One who stuck with it was Army, "a screwed up kid," and a friend took him to a class to "give him something to do." He ended up staying with it. Another just happened to move next to a dojo and his young son told him "there are men playing with each other in their underwear." He decided to investigate.

    So how . . . some where . . . the formalities set in. According to one Grand Poohbah who trained even longer ago . . . under Imperious Grand Poohbah--"broken glass? You were lucky to have broken glass! We had to train in the lake!"--training was a bunch of guys getting together to work on parts of a kata and using those to kick the hell out of one another. "Back then," he explained, "kata have no 'ich, ni, san, chi!'"

    They did not even have belts or gis.

    As some point--damn I use to know the date--schools had to adopt the dan ranking system. So, he explained, they had a "test" and worked out grade for everyone! As classes got bigger, "have to add 'ich, ni, san, chi!'" Things became more regimented. A story that gets repeated enough times is that many Okinawan would not take the day off to test for dan grade, so an American mixes it up with a "white belt" who promptly "pretzles" him!

    I have not found in Okinawa dojos the rigid Japanese "sempei/kohei" relationship. Perhaps I have gone to the wrong ones. However, at some point, Americans became enamored with the militaristic hierarchy. I have actually seen people call each other "sempei" and "kohei" at the mall!

    Some people--those in "krotty"--look for those external validations. Hence they must be "sensei" or "sempei." They need it as anyone does in a cult.

    Anyways, I feel a bandwidth wasting rant coming upon me so I shall stop. My point [He really does not have one.--Ed.] is the Okinawans do not call themselves "sensei." "I am SENSEI Baka!" This makes hearing "this is Sensei Bob" seem so foreign.

    As for black gis . . . when I visited the home of the once scrawny Army lad he dug out an old picture of himself in a black gi. I laughed. "Hey, everyone had a black gi in the 70s! Besides, admit it! It looks cool!"

    He has a point.

    "I drew the line at red-white-and-blue gis."

    --J.D.
  5. FictionPimp is offline

    Sexiest Punching Bag Alive

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    Posted On:
    2/28/2006 10:19am


     Style: BJJ/Judo/Boxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Coyote
    He also got a load of t-shirts proclaiming:
    "I Got My Ass Kicked by Somebody who was Adequately Trained and all I got was this Stupid T-Shirt."

    I have to get my hands on a few of those.
  6. Rhamma is offline

    Not over zealous, but just zealous enough. 病気の粗悪品

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    Posted On:
    2/28/2006 11:06am


     Style: Okinawan Karate

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Doctor X
    Great thread, I am laughing--and saving with proper credit--the definitions. I will add: "Krotty is junior-sandans."

    I know a few Americans who trained "way back when" on Okinawa--late fifties/early sixties--back when men were men . . . trained on broken glass--as part of the service. One who stuck with it was Army, "a screwed up kid," and a friend took him to a class to "give him something to do." He ended up staying with it. Another just happened to move next to a dojo and his young son told him "there are men playing with each other in their underwear." He decided to investigate.

    So how . . . some where . . . the formalities set in. According to one Grand Poohbah who trained even longer ago . . . under Imperious Grand Poohbah--"broken glass? You were lucky to have broken glass! We had to train in the lake!"--training was a bunch of guys getting together to work on parts of a kata and using those to kick the hell out of one another. "Back then," he explained, "kata have no 'ich, ni, san, chi!'"

    They did not even have belts or gis.

    As some point--damn I use to know the date--schools had to adopt the dan ranking system. So, he explained, they had a "test" and worked out grade for everyone! As classes got bigger, "have to add 'ich, ni, san, chi!'" Things became more regimented. A story that gets repeated enough times is that many Okinawan would not take the day off to test for dan grade, so an American mixes it up with a "white belt" who promptly "pretzles" him!

    I have not found in Okinawa dojos the rigid Japanese "sempei/kohei" relationship. Perhaps I have gone to the wrong ones. However, at some point, Americans became enamored with the militaristic hierarchy. I have actually seen people call each other "sempei" and "kohei" at the mall!

    Some people--those in "krotty"--look for those external validations. Hence they must be "sensei" or "sempei." They need it as anyone does in a cult.

    Anyways, I feel a bandwidth wasting rant coming upon me so I shall stop. My point [He really does not have one.--Ed.] is the Okinawans do not call themselves "sensei." "I am SENSEI Baka!" This makes hearing "this is Sensei Bob" seem so foreign.

    As for black gis . . . when I visited the home of the once scrawny Army lad he dug out an old picture of himself in a black gi. I laughed. "Hey, everyone had a black gi in the 70s! Besides, admit it! It looks cool!"

    He has a point.

    "I drew the line at red-white-and-blue gis."

    --J.D.
    I train the old Okinawan way. I have had people come and ask if they can train with me and then kind of drift away and quit because I don't do any of that militaristic crap (and I do like militaristic stuff, lol)

    They want ceremony and formality. I think it is a waste of time. They want to know what they will be doing before they get to "class". I don't have "class" (except for the few kids I teach) Just show up and train. We work on what we work on. We work hard. I have a belt, it is at home hanging on the wall in a case next to my certificate. My certificate means something to me, but it also means nothing (if you know what I mean, lol) I don't wear a belt. I have a white gi for summer, and a black gi for winter. I tuck the top in like a shirt. My pants have a built in belt, so I don't need one to hold them up.
    People often tell me that I fail to see the gravity of the situation.
    I see the gravity, and I say...

    Step right up folks and watch me defy gravity!
  7. FictionPimp is offline

    Sexiest Punching Bag Alive

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    Posted On:
    2/28/2006 1:12pm


     Style: BJJ/Judo/Boxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Do you rank the people who train with you? Critique their overall progress in any way?

    If someone was with you for 10+ years do you think they would be able to pass on what you know? I'm just wondering how that teaching style works in general.
  8. Kintama is offline

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    Mass
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    Posted On:
    2/28/2006 2:40pm


     Style: Goju

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    krotty is doing stupid stuff in order to misinterpret kata and sell it as self-defense:



    similarly, the word "karate" is mispronounced by the uninitiated.

    Clueless americans pronounce it: 'ka-rot-ie"...hence the mispelling 'krotty'.

    but since it's a japanese word (derived from okinawan word 'toudi' or 'tode') and 'karate' is properly pronounced "kada-tay" (soft 'd').


    krotty is the mispronounced word for the Art and is a euphemism for misunderstanding of the Art.
  9. Rhamma is offline

    Not over zealous, but just zealous enough. 病気の粗悪品

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    Posted On:
    2/28/2006 2:57pm


     Style: Okinawan Karate

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by FictionPimp
    Do you rank the people who train with you? Critique their overall progress in any way?

    If someone was with you for 10+ years do you think they would be able to pass on what you know? I'm just wondering how that teaching style works in general.
    Oh sure sorry, maybe I missunderrepresented my self. lol

    I do belong to an organization with formal rank. I go to train with my teacher about every other month. I do have a formal rank, and I test my student and they have rank in the usual kyu system. They have belts they can wear or not wear as it suits them. We all know each other's rank. Eventually they test in front of the head of our organization for Shodan and all other dan ranks. I just don't stress rank or gaining rank as a goal in and of itself. As they gain knowlege I test them and they progress. It's more like tutoring than teaching a class, and they help me research ideas on technique. Something might work in your head but not in real life until you test it.
    Last edited by Rhamma; 2/28/2006 3:01pm at .
    People often tell me that I fail to see the gravity of the situation.
    I see the gravity, and I say...

    Step right up folks and watch me defy gravity!
  10. Doctor X is offline
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    ARGUMENTUM AD LATINUM DICTIONAIRUM

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    Posted On:
    2/28/2006 6:28pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Argumenta ad Rem

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Rhamma
    I train the old Okinawan way. I have had people come and ask if they can train with me and then kind of drift away and quit because I don't do any of that militaristic crap (and I do like militaristic stuff, lol)
    But do you train on broken glass? Do you?!!

    Seriously, I hope your students appreciate the benefit of this training. More one-on-one and exploration.

    They want ceremony and formality. I think it is a waste of time.
    Indeed. Granted, there has to be respect, and repect means that. This false respect with bowing and scraping tends to breed the demand for it.

    I don't wear a belt. I have a white gi for summer, and a black gi for winter. I tuck the top in like a shirt. My pants have a built in belt, so I don't need one to hold them up.
    I would be interested to know what Okinawan style you practice if you do not mind. Some of them practice the kata Sanchin and, as part of the test/performance, remove their gi tops. I am always amused at students and teachers who do this and then put on their belts. What the hell is their belt holding? Their guts? Okay, "yes," in some cases. The answer is obvious: without the belt someone might judge them on their practice and not their grade!

    Quote Originally Posted by Kintama
    krotty is doing stupid stuff in order to misinterpret kata and sell it as self-defense:
    Do not "we" all do that? Come up with some really bizarre interpretations? Of course, if honest, we test them--"gee, I guess that does not work!"

    This from someone who just realized he has spelled "shi" for "four" as "chi" throughout his post. . . .

    I have been in enough pointless discussions on the "right meaning" of a kata move. I was very happy when forementioned Grand Poohbah described how Imperious Grand Poohbah played with kata moves and sometimes did them "backwards." "Sometimes it work, sometimes it not work! Sometimes it work for someone and not for someone else." "Krotty" practitioners think that if they learn how to "dance" the moves "correctly" that will somehow magically confer the ability to wipe out Mongo the Merciless and anyone else.

    That being written the most ridiculous thing I ever heard was a guy describing a move as "you are blinded and are feeling for your opponent!"

    ?

    "Gee whiz," I opined, "methinks your opponent will make his location known to you very quickly on his own!"

    He did not get it.

    --J.D.
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