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  1. whybother is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/24/2006 12:28pm


     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    But -- have you all forgotten the flying armadillo and armadillo guard?

    I do not have time for this nonsense. I need to get back to producing my DVD on anti-fighting. This is superior to anti-grappling as it takes into account all ranges, attacks, everything. Antigrappling is just a subset of antifighting. Antifighting is the wave of the future. If you want to pre-order your DVDs, just let me know.
  2. Gumby is offline

    BJJ Purple Belt

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    Posted On:
    2/24/2006 2:48pm


     Style: Brazilian Jiu Jitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    "Anti-Grappling" is an attempt to instill some type of defensive system against grappling attacks while trying to maintain that you're still only training in one art. Many people figure that if you cross train, it would suggest that your primary style is not very effective or does not have all the answers.

    No one thinks less of Muay Thai, boxing, Judo, BJJ, or wrestling practitioners for crosstraining and it in no way lessens the effectiveness of their primary style.

    Those that throw around "anti-grapple" are those that are trying to save face for their style because it lacks certain techniques. They're also often too ignorant and proud to admit otherwise.

    Just fucking cross train.
  3. TehDeadlyDimMak is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/24/2006 3:48pm


     Style: Sanda, BJJ

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Is it better to use "anti-grapple" crap or just stand there and get taken down?

    Well... both will eventually leave you on the floor and by standing there you conserve energy.
  4. Shard is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/24/2006 10:17pm


     Style: I know Kung Fu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by TehDeadlyDimMak
    Is it better to use "anti-grapple" crap or just stand there and get taken down?

    Well... both will eventually leave you on the floor and by standing there you conserve energy.
    Kinda depends on how your "anti-grapple" works now doesn't it? If you are talking about BS stuff like lifting a knee or kicking them in the face, then chances are its going to be easier for a trained grappler to take you down.
    Its a little like saying i have a new rain coat. Its made of paper towels and its "Anti-Rain" Which is better? Getting wet straight away or getting wet and covered in wet paper that won't come off?

    The only anti-grappling i see working is if you actually practise grappling use that knowledge to keep you standing if thats where your strong point is.

    But what do i know? I'm just some Ignorant KF guy.
  5. Dr._Tzun_Tzu is offline
    Dr._Tzun_Tzu's Avatar

    It's pretty beat up, but it is a complete copy....

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    Posted On:
    2/25/2006 1:43am

    supporting member
     Style: EBMAS WT/ Latosa Concepts

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Since that other thread derailed, I will post this here.

    This nonsense about anti-fight or anti-strikeing mises the point. BJJ was intended to be anti-strike, since you remove the strikers base and go to the ground in order to prevent the strikers hits from working. While it is not called Anti-, it is right there in the BJJ theory and sales pitch. If strikes didn't work why would you need to even worry about someone fighting you, so the bjj takes the base away to prevent strikes.

    WT anti-Grappling should really be written (anti) Grappling. It is still grappling. It is still learning escapes from locks and chokes and throws, and so it is also learning to do locks, and chokes, and throws. the anti- prefix just reminds the fighter they are trying to learn to prevent the grapplers advantage. To think that you could do this without actually grappling is silly. Each time you grapple you need to return to striking.

    Chi Sau involves preventing people from grabbing you too ya know....

    Furthermore, the comparision of punch vs anti-punch also misses the point. You can not use anti- with two of the same things. Defeating a punch with a take down or even with a kick is anti-punch, or using a punch or kick againt a grab or throw is anti-grapple, but punching against punching or grappling against grappling is just boxing or wrestling. To be anti- you need them to be from different perspectives.

    So the prefix anti- is a state of mind to keep you from slipping into a one style frame work. It is important for cross trainers in order to make sure they are mixing their different styles when sparring and not just slipping back into one or the other..

    "If anything is gained from this, it should be you both wanting to get better so you can make up for how crappy you are now." KidSpatula about the Sirc vs DTT Gong Sau Event
    Until the Bulltube is fixed:
    DTT vs Sirc

  6. It is Fake is offline
    It is Fake's Avatar

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    Posted On:
    2/25/2006 2:56am

    staff
     Style: xingyi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Naw, you put this **** here because Asia and Omega would eat you alive. You noticed they aren't posting in this thread.


    There is no such thing as WT/WC/VT anti-grappling. There is no history, pictures, or techniques in any books pre-1995. You know it was suddenly "discovered" after a little incident that changed MA........THE UFC.
  7. Zendetta is offline

    Senior Member

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    Posted On:
    2/25/2006 1:41pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: MMA, functional JKD

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Dr._Tzun_Tzu
    This nonsense about anti-fight or anti-strikeing mises the point. BJJ was intended to be anti-strike, since you remove the strikers base and go to the ground in order to prevent the strikers hits from working. While it is not called Anti-, it is right there in the BJJ theory and sales pitch. If strikes didn't work why would you need to even worry about someone fighting you, so the bjj takes the base away to prevent strikes.

    WT anti-Grappling should really be written (anti) Grappling. It is still grappling. It is still learning escapes from locks and chokes and throws, and so it is also learning to do locks, and chokes, and throws. the anti- prefix just reminds the fighter they are trying to learn to prevent the grapplers advantage. To think that you could do this without actually grappling is silly. Each time you grapple you need to return to striking.
    THese arn't *bad* points, but they ignore several glaring issues:

    1) ''anti-grapple" is marketed like some miracle product: Removes Unsightly Grappling with one application! rather than another fighting attribute to be developed.

    2)At least one public proponent (E Boztepe) of anti-grappling has later publicly stated that he only taught that crap because he was following orders from the League of Evil Mutants.

    3) why not learn real grappling from someone who knows what they are doing?
    (ie swallow your pride and cross train with BJJers)
    "You know what I like about you, William? You like guns AND meditation."
  8. Dr._Tzun_Tzu is offline
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    It's pretty beat up, but it is a complete copy....

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    Posted On:
    2/25/2006 1:52pm

    supporting member
     Style: EBMAS WT/ Latosa Concepts

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Actually, it was started long before that, but it is true that the UFC marketing machine produced alot of grapplers, so a specific program to counter that had to be put out to the students.

    Assuming that WT NEVER faced any wrestlers before the UFC(which is just stupid), and the program was made specifically to fight them, the name Anti-Grappling then makes perfect sense. It was made specifically to fight Grapplers though. However, both Kernspeckt and Boztepe have wrestling backgrounds, and the Bulgarian National Wrestling Team has attributed their success to the Coaching from EWTO.

    When I first learned the programs in the mid 1990's, noone said anything about them being ancient or "lost" hidden stuff from Yip Man. We were told that they had been created from root movements and from Si-Fu Bozetepes experience specifically to deal with he changining aspect of the world fighting culture.

    "If anything is gained from this, it should be you both wanting to get better so you can make up for how crappy you are now." KidSpatula about the Sirc vs DTT Gong Sau Event
    Until the Bulltube is fixed:
    DTT vs Sirc

  9. It is Fake is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/25/2006 1:55pm

    staff
     Style: xingyi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Dr._Tzun_Tzu

    When I first learned the programs in the mid 1990's, noone said anything about them being ancient or "lost" hidden stuff from Yip Man. We were told that they had been created from root movements and from Si-Fu Bozetepes experience specifically to deal with he changining aspect of the world fighting culture.
    Right but many WC'ers use the hidden fact to explain anti-grapple has existed for years. You have alluded to this yourself.
  10. Shawarma is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/25/2006 1:56pm


     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Interesting note: Bozepte trains grappling and groundfighting. Has apparently been spotted training with Gokor, sambo and judo pimpmaster.
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