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  1. EternalRage is offline
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    WARNING: BJJ may cause airway obstruction.

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    Posted On:
    2/27/2006 1:46pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Bajillion Joo Jizzu

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Raynor
    You start with learning how to do the move safely and properly and THEN how to set it up for actual use. If you arent drilling heel hooks and havent been taught how to do them, you dont need a set up for them.
    Ok fine more drilling the move. Do you have any tips for how to go to heel hook position from ankle lock.
  2. Yrkoon9 is offline
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    Brock Sampson

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    Posted On:
    2/27/2006 1:58pm

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     Style: 5.56

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I will make one comment on straight ankle locks:

    Most people cannot do them correctly. And that is why very few people tap to them. I used to think they were mostly a joke. Painfull but not really dangerous.

    Then I had Oleg Taktarov put a few on me during sparring. Not cool at all. The pain short circuited my thinking. I tapped instinctively because I knew my foot was going to literally break off. I didn't really have a chance to ask him how he was doing them. Also, I didn't want to look like a fool for not knowing how to 'properly' apply them. Instead I just kept sparring and tried to watch my feet.

    So a month or two later he was teaching class when Marcus was in Japan and he went over the basic footlock. Most people yawned. Probably because they never felt Oleg's footlock.

    The inherent difference between Oleg's footlock and OTHER peoples footlock come in 2 areas. The first is a positional control difference and the second is a application difference.

    1) He controls BOTH feet before he applies any pressure. Most people just grab one foot and crank. It allows the other person to use the free foot to sit up and start a defense. Oleg controls both feet so you cant do anything other than sit up. He is obviously only really going for one foot but he doesn't let you pull that other one back. I think he was sorta cupping behind the ankle of your 'free' foot. This allows him more time to actually set up his footlock before you can start your defense.

    2) He squeezes before he leans back. 'Squeezing' is not cranking. Squeezing is using your 'Lat' muscle and pulling your own elbow to your body FIRST. It is, in essense, the same effect as Arlovski leaning over ontop of the ankle. It crushes the space out of the lock.

    So the steps go like this.
    a) secure the wrap on the ankle.
    b) secure the other foot somehow.
    c) squeeze trapped foot with the lat muscle and eliminate any space.
    d) begin to crank back and then lay over to the side almost in one motion.

    Now I realize everyone has 'their' version of the ankle lock - as their teacher showed them - and by god it is the absolute final authority on the subject! Everyone else is wrong! Yeah yeah. Do whatever way you want. But if you are finding that the straight ankle lock isn't getting the results you want maybe give these 2 ideas a try.
  3. saku39 is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/27/2006 3:49pm


     Style: taido

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Let me qualify my statement: I am not an expert, but I was taught this move by Daizo Ishige, who i would consider an expert grappler.

    c) squeeze trapped foot with the lat muscle and eliminate any space.

    i was taught the same way, with a little more detail at this step. Essentially, you roll your shoulder forward and draw it back against the toes. Then, you roll your shoulder back and down. concurrently, you are closing the elbow. I geuss im say i do more of a roll with my shoulder rather than a straight pull down.
  4. JohnnyS is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/27/2006 9:02pm

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     Style: Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Raynor,
    I've had two of the three ligaments on the side of my foot ripped from a straight anklelock. I've seen people have broken feet from straight anklelocks. If the anklelock is done properly, it will injure you enough to keep you out of training for a while.
  5. EternalRage is offline
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    WARNING: BJJ may cause airway obstruction.

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    Posted On:
    2/27/2006 9:03pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Bajillion Joo Jizzu

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Mmm that helps, thanks for the input.
  6. JohnnyS is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/27/2006 9:32pm

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     Style: Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Maybe they don't know what they're doing...

    The problem with straight ankle locks is that people often don't have them on correctly before trying to make the guy tap. There's a few things that need to be done with an ankle lock to make it effective:
    1) Make sure the instep of the foot is under the armpit i.e. you should be affecting his foot, not his shin.
    2) Make sure the elbow of the arm holding the foot is squeezed against your side to secure the foot properly.
    3) Control your opponent with your legs so that you stop him mounting or coming on top.

    Points 1 and 2 are very important and the steps that let most people down. Grab the foot, pull it up HARD and tight under the armpit. Squeeze your elbow to your body. Then the lock should be more effective.

    I think that what happens a lot of the time is that people will apply the lock but because they're laying on the arm that's controlling the foot, they don't have everything locked properly, and because of their own weight it's too difficult to adjust so they think "Ah, What the hell, I'll try it anyway" and so the lock is ineffective.
  7. JohnnyS is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/27/2006 9:43pm

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     Style: Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Looks like I beat you to it Omega :)

    Raynor, you can see that Omega and I are essentially saying the same things. If one of these things isn't done properly, the anklelock will be ineffective.
  8. Fighting Cephalopod is offline
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    Submitting 1d6 Investigators per round

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    Posted On:
    2/27/2006 10:57pm

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     Style: ZHOO ZHITSU

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    One other thing - although people have gotten a lot better about this as influence from Sambo and other leglock-aware systems spread, a lot of people go flat on their back to finish the ankle lock. You should be going onto your side - you're arching your back to extend his foot, and if you go flat on your back the mat is in your way.

    Arlovski, you'll note, does it correctly on Sylvia - goes onto his side. If the guy does that, "putting the boot on" ie straightening your leg, is only a delay, not a defense - it's the strength of your leg vs the strength of his back, and unless he's a giant weeping vagina he's going to win that one.
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